What? It’s okay to expect to be paid for your expertise and time? NO way!

I like how she mentions her dislike of “personal branding” yet that’s what her blog does for herself. Makes me giggle.

Peter,
Your Tweet ruled. It’s such a huge lesson for many of us that are constantly asked to give away that which we do to make a living at for free.

I would add to “Let me pick your brain” with..”Got a second? I have a question” followed by “How would you go about marketing ”

Your handling of the situation…classy.

A douche you are not.
Rock on,
Tex
P.S. If it’s any consolation, Kami who? Never even heard of her.

Great response. If someone wants to pick my brain, that’s one thing. If someone wants *free* services I would have otherwise charged a client for, that is a completely different thing.

This remind me a a funny piece I read over at 27b/6, where the author was approached about doing a couple hours of free work. His response really rang true for me: “Actually, you were asking me to design a logo which would have taken me a few hours and fifteen years experience. For free.” (link: http://bit.ly/bJ8jol)

Cheers,
Josh

Great reply. I love when people call and ask to meet and want to hire me, and then find out they want to pitch their business, get feedback and sell me something.
I’m happy to help answer questions or provide quick feedback, but when it goes beyond that – I’m bookmarking this post and sending the link!

Thanks Peter!

Time is money in the pure and simplest form.

I think the way you went about this was BRILLIANT, Peter! I’m so tired of having people ask me for my (P.R.) services for free. I’m going to remember how you handled this situation and feel inspired by it the next time I have to defend my need to make a living and not work for free.

My favorite response is to point them to their local library. I usually email a few titles and then say, ‘Why don’t you ask your librarian.. they are great resources that your tax dollars pay for.. by all means.. they live for this sort of thing.” I rarely get asked for brain picks again.

“I’d love to go to the lunch with you, but I’m not going to pay for lunch,” sounds pretty arrogant to me. I don’t think so, Peter. I am Kami’s business partner so I am partial, but it seems you may want to look at the general trend here.

As to the $400 response — On a call or email after a request for time? Yes, I do the same thing. But tweeting it? No. That’s arrogant, in my opinion, it’s a public feed and it’s a demonstration to your fanboys and fangirls.

On a larger level, I do feel the pain you are talking about. Social media does seem to breed this idea that all of my time is for free. Online visibility does require you to start parsing and selecting your opportunities very carefully. ;) That’s the price we all pay for our successes. It does not warrant flaunting our rates on Twitter.

My free advice for you. I am sure Kami will be in touch, but she is with her children currently. Consider this a place holder response.

$400 is cheap Peter. :)

I’m nowhere near is cool as you (trust me) and I’m at $500 for “Pick David’s Brain” sessions.

In the two years that I have worked for Peter, he has accepted EVERY “free” phone call, coffee meeting and lunch request that’s been asked of him, even though he already has the craziest schedule of anyone I have ever met. I always yell at him about giving his brilliant ideas and highly demanded time and energy away for free, but Peter has always been about good karma. Well in my humble opinion, Peter has paid it forward x1,000,000,000 so it’s about damn time he starts asking for what he deserves!! (but if I know Peter, he’s still going to take all of the free meetings -which are sooo fun for me to schedule, by the way :) – Damn him and his good heart!)

It’s the intent of the message that’s so true – and yes, some people deserve the *actual* message you wrote in your tweet.

Geoff:

Perhaps you missed my attempt at sarcasm. See, the concept here is, I don’t see how “I’ll have lunch with you” somehow equates to “I could hire you and pay you for your time which I think is valuable, but I won’t.”

Additionally, I really think you’re missing the bigger picture – As I mentioned when I tweeted, I answer every single email – and NONE of them get answered like that – The ones that do, though, are the multiple requests for a LOT more.

Geoff, if you think that’s so arrogant, by all means, fing a better way to say it to your “fanboys and fangirls” (now who’s using arrogance in their terms, Geoff?)

I stand by my tweet. And I really think you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who would tell you that their first email to me didn’t get an answer to their question.

Best to you and your business partner, Kami,

-Peter

PS: I’ll ask Kami this herself, so I don’t expect you to answer it for her, but did she really think that what she wrote wouldn’t be “outed?” Her “I won’t mention his name” was a pointless move, and you know it.

On a related note, I love it when we get folks who call or email and say they want to work for us because they “want to start their own production company down the road”. In the meantime, however, they want us to hire them, teach them everything we know about the business and pay them. So let me get this right…you want me to train my competition? And give them a paycheck while I do it? Right…

Love! Great response.

Some people really need to learn and remember, “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” Asking politely for something goes much further than blasting out a blog post or tweet which demands an answer. Obviously, this is one area of professionalism that Kami has yet to grasp.

Time is valuable, whether you are making $400 an hour or $10 an hour. Every hour that is given away for free is money that could be put towards a tank of gas or a mortgage payment. Unfortunately, when you say no, it immediately makes you a bad person. In anyone’s case, especially Peter’s, if you constantly give out free time to everyone who asks for it, you will eventually be working 80-hours a week for free.

What doesn’t she get about that? What Kami describes as arrogance is nothing more than Peter’s good judgement in terms of business and exceptional time management skills.

I also love the fact that that she dislikes personal branding, as ‘The Dead Parrot’ pointed out, while she writes a blog article that people will know as being written about Peter and shared with friends (boosting traffic) and a blog which is keyword rich boosting SEO – in turn, increasing the brand awareness of her PERSONAL blog. Personal blog. Brand awareness. Doesn’t that make it personal branding?

Kami is not asking for free time. She is asking for Peter to educate her with the years of knowledge and experience that drives Fortune 100 companies to doorstep; rather than heading out in to the world and educating herself.

Ditto to Tex and Josh! You hit on a nerve we all have, because we are constantly bombarded with these requests from clients, former clients, potential clients, friends with businesses—colleagues should know better. Kami’s just trying to hitch a ride on your star—in the same way Jesse Jackson is trying to tag onto the Lebron story to be relevant. (Sorry, I’m from Cleveland—we aren’t allowed to talk about anything else for at least 3 more days.) The only negative is now we all know her name.

Cheers,
Jayne

PS: I’d say you’ve given away quite enough, given we receive HARO multiple times a day.

Wow, Peter. Nice of you to leverage your “modicum of fame” to boost Kami’s search results.
Maybe I should write a blog post ripping you in hopes that you’ll make a stink about it and get my name out there. Any press is good press, right?

Seriously though, “at $400 per hour” was a great use of humor to lighten a serious issue, while still getting your point across.

I don’t know you, so I won’t rule on your douchiness, but I don’t have a problem with your tweet.

Reading your blog is free right? We all have our own networks of people that we can ask for help or advice to a certain level. I once joked that you are way too connected and open for your own good (or health). That being said I know how it feels to be too good of a guy and be taken advantage of. But over time when you get older, cynical, and burned one to many times you have to be more assertive because in the end we need to take care of our self first (and family then close friends, then like 3rd cousins twice removed).

Sounds like Kami is the one with a bit to big a head.

BTW who is Kami?

Np, I got the sarcasm. I just found it to be arrogant. As do I this, “I really think you’re missing the bigger picture – As I mentioned when I tweeted, I answer every single email – and NONE of them get answered like that.” And using fing. And..

:) Happy trails, Peter.

I can relate to pretty much all of the above. I instruct artist workshops. It’s taken years of marketing and promoting, not to mention late nights updating my website, networking, blah, blah, blah.
I not only get calls from people wanting to pick my brain, because they want to ‘do what I do ?’ Ha! but they call me on my 800 number, guess they think an 800 number is free for me too…
Just asked my business partner recently, (shaking my head )- ‘do you see a sign on my forehead ?’

Sorry, Geoff – “Find.” not “Fing.” But hey, when out of ideas, go hit on those typos, right? :)

I’m new to this whole environment. When I have a question, I put it as specifically as I can in 140 characters and tweet it. Most of the time I get answers and from surprising sources. It’s greatly appreciated! I can’t afford to hire you (or anyone else), I’ll do things like buy their book if it’ll help me, retweet them, comment on their blog, etc. Peter, people like you are what makes this universe a fun place to be. And one of these times you’re in the DC/Virginia area, you’ll get an invitation to lunch, on me. Just to chat. Not pick your brains.

Aw! Thank you, Meagan!! :D

Not at all trying to get in the middle of this debacle, but I can say this for Peter.

As an animal lover, he never asked for any money for the HARO service, instead, asked users to donate to animal nonprofit organizations including the one I work for.

The same organization benefitted greatly when Peter came out for free to discuss social media and its importance. His presence opened the eyes of the higher ups in my org and made my job an awful lot easier :)

I have always found Peter to be a genuine, extremely generous guy who cares about things far beyond himself. Not something I could easily say about a whole bunch of other “experts” out there who do nothing good with the large audiences they’ve built other than promote themselves.

I’m going out on a limb here…I bet Kami deleted that tweet and is probably pretty embarrassed right now.

Peter, your blog was a great reminder that I need to say thank you to you for all your generosity. I also need to call my mentors and advisers and thank them for giving me the time when I did need to legitimately pick their brain, seek advice and get some encouragement.

Oh and maybe Kami was talking about the recent post from Chris Brogan? http://www.chrisbrogan.com/pro.....-requests/

I loved your tweet and response letter and don’t think you’re a douche for posting either one. My blog & I are nowhere near as popular as you are, Peter, but I find myself saying similar things to some folks who ask to post one of my recipes, photos, etc. I’m more than happy to give advice and lend content, but I always – ALWAYS require full credit and links back to my blog (especially after having a lot of content stolen earlier this year). It’s not quite $400/hr, but it’s similar in that my time and knowledge ARE worth something! Sadly, some folks don’t see it in those terms.

You are probably also giving Zoetica more page views than they have ever received

Interesting comments and it is not just PR people and consultants that are solicited for free advice. We Travel Agents are constantly asked for advice and then the business is taken elsewhere. But a rational person finds it hard to say “No” because we are all guilty. We ask a Mechanic for free advice, we ask the Chef at the restaurant how he or she made the sauce, we all look for free information to some extent just in small daily activities.

Not to get in the crossfire here cuz I love both Peter and Geoff….

You’re comment was bang on with me, I get it a lot too and I equate it to going into a clothing store and saying wow, love the shirt, can I wear it for an hour and bring it back?

I think it’s a simple rule – if someone wants you to help them make a bunch of money, there is no problem asking for something in return and you are not at all being arrogant.

If they want to talk about anything else socially, say, Lindsay Lohan’s latest drama, or whether Lebron James made the right decision or pretty much anything NOT expected to make a bunch of money, and you ask for money for the privilege of hanging out with you – that would be arrogant.

I’m an engineer. For me, social versus business interactions are pretty well defined. No one is asking me to lunch and expecting me to do calculations or drawings for them for free. It would be rude.

Doing what you do, Peter, the line between social interactions and business interactions gets very blurred. You make it that way on purpose. You sell yourself and your personality as a brand. And it works. Of course some people don’t quite get where that line is – and it is a fine line in the social media business. I think it’s understandable how people could step over that line. But it’s also completely understandable why you hold firm. After all, if you give the milk away for free, who’s going to buy the cow?

Typos are so arrogant:)

Great point about paying for the value of your time, energy and life, Peter. I also look to Randy Pausch’s lecture on time management (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTugjssqOT0) – when he was dying of cancer – to help me decide how to spend my time/energy and what/who to spend it on.

An Open Comment to Peter;

First, let me say that my post had nothing to do with you. At. all. It did have to do with how Tweets can appear arrogant out of context. I didn’t include your name because (truth be told) I wanted it to be more about the ideas than the people.

I agree that it is very frustrating to have people asking for things left, right and center without ever intending to pay you. I once had a blog reader call me and ask how to do a blogger relations campaign for a client and “by the way” how do you do a blogger relations campaign?

So, I get your angst. However, the $400 an hour comment is so far an above what most people can reasonably charge that it smacked of “look at me, I am worth $400/hour, how about you?”

I have had online exchanges with you in the past that have been fairly pleasant, so I do know that you are approachable. You have said some things that have come off as arrogant to me in the past which I would be happy to outline for you in a different forum. However, my point is that we have come to a point in the evolution of the Web that people feel free to say arrogant and rude things in public forums without regard to others. It is something that I watch for in myself, and try to correct when it occurs.

Did I think you would find out and read my post? I figured it was a safe bet that you might. Was the post about YOU? No way! It was about all of us and how we need to be mindful of our actions.

I will link to this post from mine and my comments are fixed (nice time for them to break down), so your friends can feel free to pound me, but I stand by my thoughts.

As for that lunch, would love to do it. And I can pay for my own lunch and yours too if you like. :-)

This discussion brings up a question for me, has anyone come up with other successful ways to handle this? It seems to be a hard point to drive home without becoming slightly defensive. I have some clients who want to meet again and again – with no agenda, no time limit, no goal. They tell me their situation and then at the end always comes the question – “I’d like to know what you think?” My business is fairly new so some of these clients haven’t thus far been charged for these meetings, but now I’ve grown to the point that I’ll sink if I keep going this way.

Peter – I saw your post as it went up this morning and my first thought was – YES! and then I turned to my programmer and said, you know we should be doing the same thing because we find ourselves in the same position (how can I change my site so it is more appealing to search engines and people?). I would also add that on the few occasions I have offered to give a discount for certain cases (non-profit etc) I often find I spend far more time on that than my regular clients. Still I don’t seem to learn.

To the Kami / Geoff crew – I think they are just jealous they didn’t think of it first. At least that’s what my mom would say ;)

You Rock! Keep on doing that thing you do!

“Too famous.” It’s a tricky one. I hear that whispered about me sometimes. Man, some days I wish I were too famous (no I most certainly don’t). But the thing is this: you DO have to measure how you’re using your time. And those lunch pickings are something where the other side of the table intends to make business decisions (monetary decisions) based on the information they picked free.

$400 an hour is swell. Want to really muck with that process?

Hell. I don’t even have an hourly. If you want me, it’s $22K a day (until the end of 2010, and then it goes up). Or you can join 3rd Tribe and have a whole month of possible answers from 2500 or so folks for $97. : )

I’ve declared my lunch to be sacred. I spent lunch today with Mike Dunn, the CTO of Hearst. He’s an absolutely wonderful guy. I spent yesterday’s lunch with Derek Halpern, an Internet Marketer of rising note, who gave me two really great ideas, and all I gave him was some spilled gin on his shirt.

Keith Ferrazzi said to never eat alone. I’d rather spend lunches brainpicking with nonprofits. A lunch with Glenda Watson Hyatt would be worth tons to me. A lunch with some company who wants my 12 years of learning for free? Not so much.

: )

I love it! Well said.

I think you proved her point by overreacting and thinking the post was all about you. It was not about you…your tweet, arrogant or not, was used as a lead in for her main topic and I think it was a decent one.

These are my comments pasted from a related blog post that @karimacatherine did a while back. I think they are relevant here:
——

I have an additional take on this (naturally). For me, I’m a “yes” person. It’s not in my nature to turn people down who ask for help. Obviously as my time restrictions grew I had to do so more and more. But still I have people that I let “pick my brain” all the time. I did find a way to mitigate some of that and derive value from it however…

Mail them an invoice afterwards. Do it at your full rates and include every drop of time spent. Then add a line item to the invoice discounting the entire thing. Yes, it still ends up being “free” but the person on the other end will do one of three things.

1. Feel like they got something over on you, in which case you know not to do business with them.
2. When faced with the actual amount of money that you just threw away to spend time with them they will offer to pay because they never thought about it in those terms before
3. Realize the value that you just delivered and try and reciprocate, usually through giving you work or referring work. People don’t want to feel like their “social capital” is out of balance.

The whole point is that you never allow yourself to be devalued. When I give you my time I view it as me “giving you money”, and I want you to view it the same way.

Lastly, there are two reasons you give something away. To benefit someone else altruistically, or to ultimately benefit yourself because you expect reciprocation. The people in the first group assumedly deserve your time if you can give it to them. The people in the second are an investment in your future. Then there’s a third group of people, those you don’t want to give charity to and can’t reasonably expect to benefit you back, those you need to say no to… firmly.

Cheers,

Matt Ridings – @techguerilla

This is one I got a few weeks ago:

“I love your program, but I can’t afford it right now, so please stop charging me. But I’d love to get you on the phone to talk about our businesses” WTF??

(Oh, the program was $19 a month. I have nothing to talk about with someone whose business can’t support a $19 program. I’m not sure if that’s arrogant).

this doesn’t just happen to the “too famous.”

Peter, I’d like to pick your brain. Just kidding.
I’ve actually already met you at a Happy Hour in Denver one time just because you asked people to come out and meet you and each other. How nice of you. It was delightful.

Just read her article and felt compelled to post on her site:

“Opinions are just like fingerprints, everyone has their own. I can see both yours and Peters points, but I would have to side with Peter. My time is valuable, just as yours and his. Time, knowledge, expertise, creativity, etc. each have value and are due that much respect. Working as a Massage Therapist and a Spa Consultant, the culmination of these talents is lost on certain individuals. To some, I just rub people, hopefully the right way.”

I would have responded very similarly Peter. Keep doing what you do, be authentic, be present and be yourself.

I find Peter to be the most impossible man to take out for lunch: I’ve been trying for two years, each time I’m in NYC, just to thank him for ripping on my then-profile photo on Twitter during a Minnesota PRSA luncheon keynote. Who knew a cash offer could turn my luck around?

And Peter, you’re spot on. I’m not even running a consulting business, and the requests are overwhelming. Thank you for reminding us all that, in the end, we’re here to make a living.

Now let’s grab lunch next time I’m in NYC – but I’m not paying a fee. We’d have to set up a contract, get procurement involved, negotiate terms, etc., and it’s just not worth the hassle. So I just won’t ask your opinion about anything. KG

Brain picking itself has been going on for years. It’s nothing new. It’s just that now, people have many, many more ways to contact us. It’s way easier because we make it easier. We want to be approachable, accessible, but it’s next to impossible to scale. The result? We get frustrated, sometimes get snippy about it (not saying that you were snippy, but it can happen!), and sometimes people’s noses get out of joint.

You can’t please all the people all the time. What you can do, is set your own boundaries. There’s no right and wrong answer as to how much you charge, who you eat lunch with, how often, or why, and there’s definitely no rules about who you tell. You do what works for you. I do what works for me.

Each of us makes up our own minds, and it should stay that way. But none of us should ever let others take advantage of our time or energy. It’s disrespectful and unprofessional.

Thanks for reopening this discussion – it’s important.

Before I weigh in on this matter, I want to say that I am an acquaintance of Kami’s and she’s a very nice person. She even helped me grab a consulting gig, which I appreciate. She’s as gracious as they come.

That being said, her take on Peter’s tweet was an overreaction spurred on by a problem that, quite frankly, really does exist in the internet marketing industry. Some people truly do believe themselves to be hotter commodities than they really are. I don’t think the tweet in question had that intent.

If you read Peter’s tweet at face value without knowing his intentions (which most of us obviously do not), that’s what the sentiment sounds like: arrogance. But if you read it from the point of view of a freelancer or business person who has been used one too many times before, it makes a lot of sense.

Personally, I read the tweet as sarcasm. Everyone wants free “advice” and if you’ve ever worked in freelance, that gets annoying and counterproductive – fast.

So, I see how things got misconstrued and also blown out of proportion. But I will say this: people saying things in the vein of, “Who the hell is Kami Huyse? She’s a nobody,” ARE coming off as arrogant. It’s a wide world out here, people. Someone you don’t know might be important to someone else. Let’s not exacerbate an issue with pettiness.

Well this is entertaining to say the least and when you don’t have TV for the summer it’s funny what you read to stave off boredom. I do know who Peter Shankman is, simply because I use HARO. ( have found some awesome guests through you guys – thanks )
Kami, who? Never heard of her as like most of the respondents to this post, haven’t heard of each other. The question is why she decided to go on an all out hater’s rant. Except to say, that because of this, so many more people know who she is now. I Googled her and she’s in PR. Is it really that simple? Did she do it to drive traffic to her blog? To be noticed? Who notices the nice person, anyway? Is this not like the wanna be reality stars who crash White House dinners, let loose hot air balloons and live in homes that are horribly filthy, just so their bad behavior will be noticed and rewarded?
BTW – what’s so wrong with personal branding? Although, it can have it’s pitfalls. I’d be grateful if I could get rid of the barbiec–tface person off the front page of Google under my personal brand. Or maybe I want people to think that’s me so I can get my own reality show… huh….

Too many want too much from so few. I find more “brain pickers” calling each year. I am a 32 year veteran with a successful career in marketing communications. It is frustrating that so many more need mentors today and there are fewer corporate/agency opportunities for those people. What most “brain pickers” fail to realize is that someone just called me yesterday and someone will call tomorrow. I carefully select who I will mentor and limit my time to those few. This is a necessity because now, more than ever, it is a jungle out there.

Peter

We met only once briefly (at Social Goods Conference).
I don’t think you are a douche bag.
Etiquette wise, I believe it is considered as rude to start a business meal with anyone by jumping straight into the business part.
Sharing ideas without getting paid is not bad as long as both parties give and get and still remember how and when to say thank you.
As for throwing high Hourly Rates around, sounds like ego massaging to me.
Are people playing a repeat of ‘Wall Street’ i’m only as good as the size of my money pile?
To conclude, a number of players on the web got to where they are thanks to the support of others, they can forget it at their peril.

My 2 centimes!

Serge
‘The French Guy from New Jersey’
http://www.sergetheconcierge.com

Twitter: @theconcierge

Nice Peter – Time is money, but VALUE is a whole lot more money!

passive aggressive tweets are douchy but so are whiny blog posts … i don’t think you’re a douche though.

just my opinion.

Makes sense to me. The value of your time isn’t determined by others, it’s determined by you. As a designer-on-the-side, I can say that this problem is all-too-common. To give you an example, let me share with you a blog post a designer I follow once made:
“Recently, a friend of mine asked me to design a website for him, but, he wasn’t going to pay for it. He thought, ‘Hey, you’d be getting some great exposure out of it. Plus, you’d be helping out a friend.’ Really? Well, my response was as follows: ‘Hey, that sounds great! I’ll tell you what. You’re a car salesman, right? Tell you what, how bout I take one of your cars for free. After all, it would be great exposure for your business. Plus, you’d be helping out a friend.’”

In short, some things that we do for money can’t be measured by some in the same way you would, say, view a doctor or a lawyer, but the value we put on our work is the same.

When you mess with the bull, you get the horns. She should have chatted with a few people in Phoenix before she went online and started ripping in to you. Calling now to pick your brain :-)

Not having anything against Kami, I would like to point out one bit of social media-laden irony. Not knowing the usual stats for Kami’s blog, I am curious to know how much higher her views are today than usual.

I would wager quite a bit higher. And I can’t help but find it funny that Mr. Shankman’s “microfame” (Kami’s words, not mine) that lead to his “arrogance” is also the same fame that has probably also given her blog the kind of boost that comes around only once in a great while.

Not that I fault her for that either. Controversy is an age-old source of attention, and she successfully started some controversy (whether she meant to or not.)

One last thing I would add is that once, not long ago, I listened to Mr. Shankman in a conference for the first time, and I tweeted that I thought he was arrogant. After spending a little more time listening to him, and then having the chance to meet him, I realized I had been totally wrong. He was a cool guy.

I was really new to Twitter at the time, and figured that nobody even read what I was tweeting, (I had about 6 followers) but just to make myself feel better, I tweeted that I had made a mistake, and was wrong. Well, it turns out that there was at least one person who was actually paying attention to what I had to say, and that was Peter Shankman.

And do you know what? He was totally cool to me. He sent me a DM (probably the first DM I ever received) to thank me for the apology. I remember thinking two things when I read that DM. The first was something like, “HOLY CRAP, I JUST GOT A DM FROM PETER SHANKMAN!!” And the second was something like, “Oh crap, Peter Shankman read that I thought he was arrogant.”

I haven’t had any direct contact with Mr. Shankman since that day (and I’m sure he doesn’t remember any of this at all) but it left a real impression on me on the kind of guy that he really is.

Peter Shankman may be really blunt sometimes, and that may come across to some as crass. But the truth is, he’s all class.

The best part of this for me is that she could of just been an adult about it and not made herself look like a fool. Even if you were being a D-Bag(which I personally don’t think you were, though the Tweet was kind of pointless) she should of just sucked it up and let things lie.

You never owed her anything, yet you can tell she truly expected something in return. Personally, if someone replies to me in a way which I don’t like or pisses me off, I just won’t do business with them. It’s much easier and less drama filled. :)

At the very least I have to say that the post and comments were entertaining

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks so much for this, because I now know just how drastically I am undercharging my own clients! You are truly awesome, Peter, and your tweet was SO on the money (pun not intended, but it works).

when will these people get a clue — time is money. Ideas are priceless. If I had a dollar for every time someone has asked me for PR services or my advice for free, I’d be a rich man. With the creation of HARO, Peter has more than proved his openness to help others succeed. Everyday we open up our HARO e-mails we should be thanking Peter for his generosity and vision. If you ask me, his expertise is worth a lot more than $400 per hour.

An Open Comment to Peter;

First, let me say that my post had nothing to do with you. At. all. It did have to do with how Tweets can appear arrogant out of context. I didn’t include your name because (truth be told) I wanted it to be more about the ideas than the people.

I agree that it is very frustrating to have people asking for things left, right and center without ever intending to pay you. I once had a blog reader call me and ask how to do a blogger relations campaign for a client and “by the way” how do you do a blogger relations campaign?

So, I get your angst. However, the $400 an hour comment is so far an above what most people can reasonably charge that it smacked of “look at me, I am worth $400/hour, how about you?”

I have had online exchanges with you in the past that have been fairly pleasant, so I do know that you are approachable. You have said some things that have come off as arrogant to me in the past which I would be happy to outline for you in a different forum. However, my point is that we have come to a point in the evolution of the Web that people feel free to say arrogant and rude things in public forums without regard to others.

Did I think you would find out and read my post. I figured it was a safe bet that you might. Was the post about YOU? No way! It was about all of us (me included) and how we need to be mindful of our actions and our words.

I have had several people far removed from the personalities of all of this tell me it made them think about how they respond, and that was the point of the post.

@John wrote: “If someone wants to pick my brain, that’s one thing.”

Actually, it’s not. Intellect, advice and strategy are _deliverables_ just the same as creative and other tangibles are, John. Don’t believe me? Try telling your doctor you want to pick his brain about a problem you’re having.

Just because you believe that your time is worth something, doesn’t mean you’ve become too famous. Everyone’s time is worth something. Whether you choose to give it away or charge for it is entirely up to you.

@PeterShankman – At $400 bones an hour, you better offer a happy ending… Just sayin’…

…And from a person who does not even know Peter on a personal level like that :)

In every capacity that I have sent him correspondence just to share ideas or information (not expecting a return call or message)…I have received a personal response at every level – text message, Facebook response and email. And Peter was also a most gracious host at a Pete’up ;-) in DC.

Appreciate you very much Mr. Shankman and the generous service you provide that gives everyone tremendous opportunities to get their voice out there on a larger level. I speak for myself, when I say that I feel important and valued in your world!

This appears to be a classic case of how something online can spiral a bit out of control.

I consider Kami a friend, so let’s get that disclaimer out of the way.

You are right to desire compensation for your time and expertise. I’m not going to put words in Kami’s mouth, but I believe what she was getting at was not that fact, but the rather brusque way you put it in a tweet–but, that is the nature of Twitter, no room for nuance in 140 characters.

There are some brain pickers who are parasitic. There are others who truly have no one to bounce things off of–they are looking at you as a resource. Maybe the genteel approach won’t work for them. But perhaps it will.

It’s possible that I’m projecting my own feelings onto Kami’s post, but my question is, where’s the harm in being less brutal than, “here’s my rate card”?

Finally, your tweet was a very small portion of her post–most of it had to do with other examples of what she believes are somewhat smug behaviors. I’ve never been handed a business card that says “Google me” but I think I’d either gag or pitch it if I did. It implies that the recipient should either already know who the person is (then why bother with the business card?) or that the recipient should do the research to find out who the person is that they met–if people don’t see the inherent arrogance of that, well, this comment certainly isn’t going to matter. I suppose some people might find it clever; I do not.

Kami has previously posted on the increasing lack of civility online. I happen to agree with her, and some of the comments above attacking her simply reinforce my opinion. As with so many of these situations I’ve seen over the years, it’s unfortunate that a genuine difference of perspective had to degenerate like this. I deeply respect what you have done with HARO, and I equally respect Kami’s work, and the perspective she brings to online discussion.

I completely understand where you are coming from, Peter. I get too many ‘can I pick your brain’ calls, and one person simply cannot accommodate everyone. I’m sure many of your followers here are in the same boat. So you have the right to determine with whom you will share your expertise. It’s totally at your discretion. I tend to give more to non-profits but, again, no one has unlimited time and, thus, yes, time has a high value. Moreover, as you point out, there is a complete difference between someone who thinks “brain picking” is an open door to call you at any time and ask you to review lots of documents for free vs. someone who just has a quick, one-time question. I hear you loud and clear on that one! And, by the way, how often do “brain pickers” pay it forward with free help to others, or offer to help you in return? I wouldn’t mind as much if they offered or at least promised to help someone else in return for every bit of work I help them with. Spread the goodness. I like Kelly’s analogy. Made me laugh. Spot on!

BTW – I have met Geoff and Kami briefly (fellow SNCR.org Fellows) and they are lovely people. I hope, Peter, that you and Kami do get to have lunch sometime.

I hear you, Peter, loud and clear. I also think there is a difference between “brain pickers” and people who just have a simple, brief, one-time question as you point out in your letter. I wouldn’t mind near as much if brain pickers would pay it forward by offering and promising to help someone else who comes to them. But you just simply can’t help everyone – no one has unlimited time. And it’s really at your discretion to decide to whom you give that advice. Kelly’s analogy was spot on (laughing!).

BTW – I have met Geoff and Kami briefly and they are lovely people. I do hope, Peter, that you do get a chance to have lunch with Kami. T

Great post. I think your tweet was well worded, direct and to the point. Kami chose to make her response public, like a 12-year old… my guess would be, in an effort to siphon a few of your contacts off in her direction. Your response to her in this post was perfect.

I have been fortunate to receive free or discounted advice from kind individuals in the past… although I’ve never been one to pester people for additional advice after the first bit… but I have always tried to find a way to give something back to them when I am able… a mention, referal, full article, link, retweets, whatever I can and whatever I think will be most helpful to them. I’m surprised how many people are shocked when I do… I guess this isn’t all that common. I also turn around and give free tips and advice to those who are coming along behind me… pay it forward. :)

It sounds to me like you are not a douche, but a good person who truly wants to help others, but needs to set a few boundaries to preserve your sanity. Keep doing what you are doing… the Kami’s of the world will come and go rather quickly… as soon as they find someone else to take advatage of.

Imagine if you were an attorney and you were asked that question? Hey there is a fine line between being used and helping people. I got a similar call today from someone asking for advise that I was actually not a good fit for but knew who was and she could easily bill them. ;-)

I smell backtracking. When you start a blog with “I saw this tweet today. And while it was penned by someone who, in general, has been pretty approachable, all I could think was, “How arrogant.” you are pretty much talking about the person who tweeted it. So i’d own up to it firstly, secondly, some people need to get a hobby, that is a hobby other than bashing people like Pete Shankman, who as far as i can tell isn’t a bank robber, a criminal, abusive to people or arrogant. This blogger, who’s name won’t be mentioned is clearly looking for publicity off the back of people who ALREADY have a public name. This blogger just joined the ranks of Spencer and Heidi Pratt and the likes of Khloe Kardashian, of trying to make a name from someone else’s fame. So I ask you mystery blogger…what have you done. What have you done that gives you any sort of authority to throw stones in your amazing glass house. What have you created. A free service that helps over a hundred thousand people a day get leads, place stories…oh no wait, that was Peter Shankman. You have, as far as I can tell, a mediocre blog, that needed a little spice, at the expense of someone who helps people. Bravo.

Big circle here:

Kami finds Peter’s tweet = arrogant
Kami’s blog = Peter’s tweet is arrogant
Kami’s blog = arrogant
Both = arrogant/not arrogant (YMMV … or YKmMV … depends on where you are)

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, right?

FWIW, I agree with Peter in that time is money … and his time is worthy money. I’m sure Kami would agree her’s is worth it too.

This has been very entertaining. =)

I believe that Peter’s rate was arbitrary. People pick my brain all the time. I answer questions. Give free help. Its what you have to do sometimes. Peter is as honest as they come. Sometimes it hurts.

Peter, two words…YOU ROCK!! You have just about everyone’s support on this topic, no question. Most can identify all too well. You are down to earth, very approachable, and amazingly helpful and giving with your valuable time. Don’t let people take advantage of your good nature.

Fantastic!

As a fellow PR at an agency that charges by the hour for people to “pick my brain”, I’m on team Peter. Well done!

The bigger question raised here is a good one that merits continued discussion. When does a conversation go from truly picking your brain to needing to pick your price? That’s a tough one, especially when it’s someone you know well who’s doing the brain picking.

Think it probably depends on who’s asking. But a good friend once told me that you should always have that initial conversation. Never hurts to meet someone new. Who knows, you may work with, or for, that person someday. After the first meeting, if the brain picking continues, I think the pick your price conversation is fair game. 9 times out of 10, people understand you run a business and need to make money.

If they don’t, that’s a shame. But you can’t please everybody. It’s impossible. And the rest of your “community” will back you. That’s all I got…

Mr. Shankman,

Thought I’d post the same comment here that I posted on Kami’s…and, as those who know Kami have already said, I hope you all get to have lunch one day. You will find her one of the most helpful, unselfish, valuing people you will ever meet.

I was surprised, after reading Kami’s post, at the number of people on Shankman’s blog who thought she was attacking anyone. Kami found an example of something that struck her as arrogant and used it as just that, an example. None of the people who are up in arms would be that way if she had only used the LeBron James example.

It just happened that I read this response before I read Kami’s post, so I was expecting some really harsh words on her end (which didn’t make any sense, knowing her). I suppose that the over-reaction shows the ease with which social media of all kind can be misconstrued and taken out of context.

I also find nothing strange with Kami writing about personal branding on her personal site. Isn’t that where you are supposed to have discussions when you don’t want to present them as the opinion of your company or employer?

While I didn’t find your original tweet offensive (and, yes, I do follow you), I didn’t find Kami’s post offensive either. I wonder how many people who bashed her in your comment section even read her post?

I think you have to know Peter to know how funny the initial criticism of him really is. Somehow, I was a little late to the HARO party. I think HARO probably already had 100,000 members when I joined. One day, one of the HARO posts struck me as particularly funny. I sent a short response, never really expecting a reply. (I mean, c’mon, it’s a mailing that goes out to 100,000 people. Within a minute, there was a response from Peter on my blackberry (little did he know that it would then become impossible to get rid of me). Rarely have I met anyone who has done a better job of NOT letting the fame go to his head. (Plus we all know that Meagan keeps him in line anyway.)

But, on the bright side for Kami, at least this probably spiked her blog traffic more than she’s ever seen.

Peter, I said it on Facebook and I’ll say it here. YOU ROCK! No need to reiterate the sentiments here about brain picking.

But I will say you used to follow me on Twitter now you’re not. I call that arrogance! LOL I’m kidding.

Looking forward to catching up to you when you breeze through Atlanta.

It’s the same in every industry. Newbies always have LOTS of questions, and don’t know where to turn. I answer questions based on: what the question is, how it is being asked, and how many are being asked. Certain types of questions I will answer until the cows come home, certain types I will skirt and use a stock answer that satisfies the customer without giving away my trade secrets, and certain types are answered with, “I teach a class in that!” Some people ask politely and are appreciative of the responses they are getting, and they get more answers from me. The ones who feel entitled to information from me get many fewer answers. :-)

Oddly, I’ve had the same experiences – from one who said it wouldn’t be right for me to invoice them for my consulting time because “We’re friends, so it’s a grey area” to the other recently unemployed who’s now landed a sweeeet gig who hit me up for 45 minutes of my brainpower during peak hours as a “professional courtesy”. Both interactions cost me money.

Amen to that sentiment, Peter! Too many people think that those of us who sell an intangible product should be willing to just give it away for nothing. But would they offer to work for their employers without pay? Doubtful. I’m sure doctors and lawyers get asked for free medical & legal advice all the time, too, but they can be some of the worst at asking those of us they consider “non-professionals” for free advice in our field. That’s one reason I never refer to myself as a “freelance” writer. Aside from it having the word “free” in it, I think the word has an implication of something somebody does on the side when they have a full-time paying job. I always refer to myself as a “professional” writer. That says it all.

Another thought: Why are you giving this woman publicity? She’s probably gotten more famous from this exchange than she’d ever dreamed of before any association with you!

I hear Carli Simon singing “I bet you thought this song was about you…”
Who’s blog am I going to today? PETER’s! Who’s blog will I avoid? KAMI’s!
She and her friends just sound like self centered creeps. Frankly I wish I had $800.00 right now, because I would pay it gladly for two hours of Peter’s time. And Peter, you generously answered an email of mine about two years ago when I was newly widowed and at loose ends career wise. PETER HELPS WIDOWS!!!! Who is the DOUCHE NOW, KAMI! You better go rescue a kitten right now, to get your karma back on track.

Related Pet Peeve of Shirley’s? Friends and Acquaintances who declined to hire you, but then ask your advice about how the person they DID hire is doing.

Interesting discussion for sure!

One thing that surprised me was Kami’s follow-up comment saying ” I wasn’t saying Peter was arrogant but that this particular tweet was arrogant.”

In my experience, words have no meaning except the meaning that we give them. Her comment gives her readers more insights about her than it tells us anything about Peter (whom I don’t know personally at all).

Charging $400/hr is not about an over-bearing sense of oneself. It is about the value that one delivers and the price that the market will pay for that value!

I’ve been to too many networking meetings where I’ve been asked to come back the following week and do a full hour training session on how Social Media can help the individuals in the group. While it is nice to be recognized as someone who adds value, my answer always is, “If I was a massage therapist in this group, would you ask me to do an hour of free massages for everyone?”

Keep up the great work Peter!

1.) Peter is arrogant. To paraphrase Ali…It isn’t arrogant if you deliver.
2.) Peter delivers. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have the following that he does.
3.) Maybe, instead of getting incensed at Peter’s reply, Kami should take a look at her email and figure out why he reacted this way. In Peter’s original post I didn’t see Kami’s name, but now because of her reaction, I had to try to find her and her business to see who I don’t want to get involved with.

For everyone attacking Kami (who is a respected PR professional and good friend of mine) I suggest you actually read her original post.

Peter, you know this was not about you per se – and we’ve met, you’ve been kind to me too – but about the culture of arrogance.

There are several other examples that she gives. How about some thoughtful commentary on those?

Shonali:

Here’s the problem I have. It took, LITERALLY – 15 minutes from the time that she posted her post, until the time the first, then the second, then the third person emailed me about it. Took 30 minutes after that until someone used @skydiver in a tweet mentioning her post and my tweet. Should I have simply ignored that?

I never got angry at Kami. Quite the opposite, I was civil, rational, and quite nice – I’ve also emailed Kami offline, and explained I’d love to have lunch with her next time we were in the same city. The only person who came close to going off the hook was her business partner Geoff Livingston, but then, he tends to attack me for no reason – this wasn’t the first time.)

According to Geoff, I “told my fans to go after her.” Of course, he also calls people I interact with “fanboys and fangirls,” which, by the way, is one of the rudest things I’ve ever heard someone say about an entire group of people, but I digress. I didn’t do anything of the kind. I wrote a post about someone who wrote a post about a tweet I posted. I didn’t do it angrily, nor did I do it in a hurtful or unkind way. I posted my thoughts, and she responded. Life goes on.

If it wasn’t about me, she didn’t need to post my tweet as a screen grab. Can you explain that? Who was it about? Someone else? It was MY TWEET. How is that not about me?

Come on, Shonali – If I grabbed a screen post of a tweet you made and wrote a blog post about it but just didn’t mention your name, it wouldn’t be about you? Really?

The other examples didn’t apply to me – I didn’t find the need to comment on them.

If people want to call me arrogant, I can’t prevent them from doing it. I’m also flattered by people who tell me I’m worth it, and I’m humbled by the amount of companies and brands in the world who want to hire me because they believe in my abilities. Is that arrogant? I don’t believe so. If other people believe it to be, so be it – I can’t control their thoughts, and I’d never have the temerity to do so. That’s not what I’m about.

Best,

-Peter

I first saw a tweet saying “right on” or such, and linking to the post.

Without knowing it was about Peter, or caring who wrote it.. I read the post and wanted to leave a brief comment. Couldn’t, so I used AMPLIFY.

Frankly, when I find a news site or blog that doesn’t allow comments, I assume that the writer/publisher/people involved don’t believe that the world has little use for one way conversations today and promptly move on. I just happened to be playing with AMPLIFY that day.

Many of us would not use the same phrasing as Peter. It’s Shankmanesque.

Arrogant? Perhaps. I can’t think of a less Shankmanesque word for it right now.

Certainly not as arrogant as not allowing conversation on a blog about communications. That’s so AdAge.

The foundation of invention and great art is based on having a bit of arrogance. Confidence gives you the courage to create something and put it out in the world, but maybe arrogance is what it takes to think that others might care about it. So, isn’t it a bit of a pot/kettle situation for Kami to refer to Peter’s tweet as arrogant? If you’ve created your own blog, where you’re sharing your opinions and ‘what you’ve learned, in real time,’ then you’re probably not lacking in arrogance. You obviously think people care about what it is you have to say. And there’s nothing wrong with that. So, while I don’t think Peter’s original tweet was at all arrogant all I can say is…arrogance be damned. If you’ve got it, flaunt it. PS – Peter’s blog is great…authentic, real, and never lacking in a sense of humor.

side note, I love how the comment box says “Join In The Fun, Leave A Comment!”

As someone who never met Peter, I will say that I wrote a reply to a tweet once and got an immediate, unexpected reply which started a dialouge. I know that’s the point of Twitter, but he also has tens of thousands of followers. If he spent all day responding to tweets, he’d need to charge $400/hr when he did work just to live!

Anyhow, I’m not taking sides, but just pointing out that Peter seems to be a nice guy who remembers what it was like to be on the outside looking in like most of us.

So finally, what do I get for $400/hour? There might be some value in it. Though I think I’d get more pub just pickin’ a fight with you online! :)

Peter

I’m finding you very ironic.

Peter, do you realize you are the BIG guy on the block? The big corporation/institution in PR (or one of them? Do you realize your influence?

If a customer of Starbucks wrote a blog criticizing “bad service” would you expect Starbucks to write a rant about it on their blog? Would you expect them to use their huge resources to chastise the little guy? Would you encourage this?

This is my main issue:

By posting these type of posts (even though you are nice) you are essentially using your power as a major scare tactic to discourage anyone in the industry from writing anything (blog, tweet or otherwise) against you.

As a self-promoting, public figure, who charges money for speeches that people pay hard-earned money to see, you are in the public realm. You are open to criticism. Like it or not, that is the position you’ve put yourself in.

Peter, don’t let these things bother you. Get some thick skin. Don’t take the time to write a rant on the little guy. In my opinion, this has hurt your brand.

You are the big corporation picking on the little guy who said the service is bad. Ironic.

Just to clear the misinformation. My blog allows comments and always has. At the moment Peter posted it was broken and I was away from an Internet connection. It was up within the hour and there are plenty of comments on the post from both Peter’s supporters and other people who got the real gist of the post, which was about online incivility and about how we ALL (me included) need to watch ourselves.

I implemented this rule as well (with few exceptions) because Wall Street analysts would constantly call me asking if Google ad spending was going up or down.

Time is our most valuable asset and is a proxy for expertise. You want expertise and time, pay for it.

One exception is where there’s a balance of exchange in expertise. I’ll have lunch with my accountant and we can chat as long as neither are billing and both are learning.

Karma. There is a lesson in Karma here for all. Intention, even the intention behind a random tweet, or a a well thought out blog post, still carries with it the karmic repercussions. The entire issue has made me think again about both. Passive aggressive, and in your face aggressive are both aggressive.

We are all asked for our ‘brains to be picked’, and we all have a list of pet peeves with in business. Our intentions behind how we handle these realities of business and success is what actually matters.

This rant (both sides) inspired me to go give blood today or do some other act of kindness without expecting anything in return.

Renee

I’m still waiting for, no PRAYING for the day that the worst thing someone can say about me is that I’m too well known.

I’ve never met you Peter, but I’m a huge fan and IMHO your advice is worth every penny of your $400/hr rate, if not more. If anyone has a problem with your rate, it sounds more like their issue than yours.

Now if you would only start doing video responses from your shower – you could tie this day up in a bright red viral social media bow.

I understand the frustration at getting asked for professional help with no offer of compensation. I understand wanting to publicly vent about it.
It doesn’t help the “I’m not arrogant” argument to start off by saying “Now as you all know, I’m pretty much the most approachable person in like, the history of forever” and estimating how many people agreed with your original statement. Having other people agree with you doesn’t make you right. Look at every fascist dictator in like, the history of forever. And you forget that people may have agreed with your sentiment, but not necessarily your phrasing of it.
It also seems somewhat misleading to invite people to ask you questions, but then expect them to know which ones you won’t be willing to answer without being paid for that answer. It might be best to make that clear from now on if you don’t want blissfully ignorant, but well-intentioned, people asking to pick your brain. Otherwise, it seems like a bait and switch. You invite them to email you, but when they do, you expect them to pay you for the privilege.
And a more polite way to reply to such requests would be “I’m afraid I have a lot on my plate now. I cannot forsake my professional consulting to do any personal consulting at this time. But thank you for asking.”
Remember, if no one wanted to pick your brain, you wouldn’t get $400 per hour. So when people express the interest, don’t slap them in the face.
To err is human, to accept the errs of others with grace and resist the urge to be snarky and corrective is divine.

If you post something that disagrees with Peter or call him out on this blog he removes it. I didn’t even call him any names, wasn’t mean (even complimented him) but was making a valid point.

He talks about transparency and Karma all the time. Ha!

Should I post the screenshot I took before he removed it?

It is laughable. You should NEVER be qualified to talk about social media transparency again Peter!

He only allows posts that agree with him. His blog, but ironic he is paid to talk about social media transparency.

Don’t worry, I’ll take a screenshot of this one too!

To totally agree with you.

Sorry, Jack – Was in a meeting You do know how stupid you look now, right? I’m happy to take a screenshot of both your posts, if you’d like.

Growing up in the 80s in NYC, we called that “getting chumped.”

You know there’s something called “approval” on the blog, right? You post something, I approve it, and it goes live. I do that to prevent spammers. The ones who jump to conclusions… Well, their stuff still gets posted, however wrong it may be.

Yeah, you jumped to conclusions. Looking stupid in the procees, Jack, you’ve gotten chumped.

Haven’t used that in a while – Maybe need to bring that back. Or call it getting Jacked. Either way. :)

Didn’t back in the day they call this “flaming?” ;-)

This is his blog though – and if he doesn’t want negative comments attached to it than so be it!

I think you’ve got a healthy dose of transparency – if we let everyone say what they wanted to say on OUR own online properties, things would get out of control and too mean. This is my first time reading your blog, but I’m impressed with the way you’re able to be honest, down to earth, and to the point all at the same point.

Team Peter! :)

Peter -

I feel like you’ve been sitting in on my new business calls and meetings this past month. The economy is shaking loose but people still want to exploit us. Thanks for shining a bright light on this subject so I have even more evidence to back up my NO THANKS.

@Jack Stevens –

I like Peter, a lot. Had the pleasure of dining/drinking with him on more than one occasion, and he’s one hell of a guy.

I also like Kami, and have had the pleasure of spending a lot of time with her.

I have learned a LOT from both of them.

That said, I think Peter may have “gone to 11″ when ten would have sufficed, but that’s okay.

But you are dead wrong about his approval policy. He doesn’t strangle conversation — he’s one of the few people I know who embraces criticism and owns up to it when it’s warranted.

Your accusation that he is selectively pruning his comments to create an illusion of groundswell is way off base, and is likely the worst claim of “unprofessionalism” in this entire unfortunate incident.

The irony is that your comment is the most damaging from a reputation and SEO perspective, and the fact Peter allows it speaks volumes.

I see both sides here. I work in pr and get frustrated when people ask for free advice (and what I mean by that is huge requests like “do you think you could completely rewrite this press release and create a media list for my start up co for free?”) type questions. There is a gray line between the karmic helping of colleagues and friends and being taken advantage of. Some times those lines are intentionally crossed, other times unintentionally. I have to note here that Peter helped me years ago and I was not even a friend of his back then…he is a wiz at putting together ikea furniture on top of being a social media expert. Yet I digress….what i wanted to say is that the way to avoid a fight is just to be clear and answer a few top line questions but if it goes deeper then just outline what your price structure would be for that kind of work. I also think peter’s mention of 400 bucks was arbitrary BUT even it it was not, that is really not unreasonable for his background, his experience and expertise. Bottom line here is that everyone needs to respect eachothers professionals and realise if your questions go beyond top level then you need to know you might have to pay for it.

Peter beware..I think William Shakespeare said it best “Methinks he doth protest too much.” Get a sense of humor dude…of course lack of humor is another sign of arrogance.

Susan Porter: I don’t have a sense of humor? OMG, that’s awesome. Well played! :) Love, Peter the arrogant non-funny one. :)

Well, reading this was definitely more entertaining than watching cats play the piano on YouTube.

I have this argument with my father-in-law all the time, how Twitter, E-Mail, Blogs, etc are limited because you really have a hard time reading the intended “tone.” Is it serious, sarcastic, or somewhere in between?…context is helpful, but not always.

I like Peter’s posts and general demeanor, but also thought that Kami’s post was fine in a general sense (be nice, etc). But, using Peter’s tweet image was calculating and disingenuous, since it was fairly obviously meant in jest (if you follow Peter regularly). I’m glad Peter responded, but am troubled at the out-sized response to this whole thing.

Peter is a big enough name, that I can see the need for him to protect himself, yet not be seen as being overly forceful.

So, lesson learned. Now back to the piano-playing cats.

The problem with social media (this coming from a PR vet, digital marketer and early social media adopter) is that it is has become too much about ME. Everyone is talking about ME. I see this entire episode, the comments, responses to comments, etc., as a huge waste of time. Who gives a flying grace anyway? There are so many more important things going on today than this one issue revolving around one person. You want to be informed? Check mainstream news sites. There are thousands of people who are in crisis and need of help. Important policy decisions are being made. Meetings of world leaders are being held. When people finally tire of social media, and related noise/hype, perhaps they will once again turn their time and energy toward things that actaully matter.

Kami — Peter is as generous as they come. Two years ago he appeared on a social media panel I moderated, for the American Society of Journalists and Authors in NYC, and he brought the house down. He did it on a Saturday. For free. This past April he was one of our two keynoters for the whole conference, at a price FAR below his normal fee, and was widely declared to be the best speaker we’ve ever had. He answers questions, he shares his knowledge widely and hell, he has turned HARO, a FREE service, into something of real value that benefits journalists and sources alike. For him to have appropriate boundaries about how far to go re sharing his hard-earned professional knowledge for little or no gain? That’s just smart.

Honestly – what is it with some of you people? How arrogant it is of someone to call someone else arrogant when you’ve never met! This to me is one of the failings of social networking – some are so comfortable “flaming” others cloaked in the veil of the Internet using words and descriptions they’d never offer in person. While like some of the other posters I’m not entirely partial – I’ve considered myself a friend of Peter’s for years – despite my living on another continent, Peter has always offered a very large helping hand whenever I needed it. Kami and Co., I think it fair that you leave well enough alone and trust the many that do know Peter well and how large his heart in helping others truly is – lest you receive a barrage of requests to pick your brain, all without charge of course.

I too am tired of doing the “pick your brains”, but so many people helped me when I started – and I still try to network with people more successful than me – isn’t it hypocritical for me not to do the “pick your brain” meetings?

Peter,

I don’t know you. I’ve never heard of you… doesn’t matter to me. Your tweet wasn’t arrogant at all. I get paid $000 per hour and sometimes get frustrated when my friends want to pick my brain. Of course I do it because I like the sound of my own voice and I fancy the opportunity to wax poetic on the field(s) of business that I know about. Namely money and people, or rather people and problems!

However, I think if I was at $400 an hour to major players, I would be helpful and nice and cordial to everybody, but I agree you have got to draw the line somewhere… Maybe you should draw up a rate sheet like they do at parking garages! Just saying… people won’t park in your garage longer than 2 hours if the rate doubles after that.

Cheers!

I’m still trying to figure out where Kami’s disconnect comes in. Whether you’re famous, micro-famous, or just known to be good in your field – people will do this to you constantly if you let them.
“Oh you work in IT? Can you come fix my computer?”
“Oh you’re a doctor? Can you look at this lump on my wrist?”
“Oh you’re a lawyer? Do you think I have a lawsuit against this guy…?”

The phrase “pick your brain” means “get your expertise without having to pay for it.”

You were dead on there Peter. Dead on.

As someone who receives this request at least once daily, has a full time job (which I love) that does not involve consulting work, and not nearly enough hours in the day, THANK YOU. “I want to pick your brain (over coffee, lunch or cocktails, my treat,” but-it-has-to-be-this-week or I am going to call you and leave you ten minute messages and email and Facebook you to death until I break you) has become my least favorite phrase in “the history of forever” — unless of course I have some personal involvement in the organization, it’s one of our community partners, or it’s a close friend or family member. It has nothing to do with ego, but it becomes overwhelming just to come up with tactful responses to all of the requests to “pick your brain” or speak at conferences and manage your actual job responsibilities. At least it’s what you do for a living, so you can get away with telling people they can pick your brain — for a fee. :)

I like to think that Peter and Kami are both friends. And even though I’m terribly jealous of Peter’s ability to parachute into piles of money with what seems like effortless creation of Titanic t-shirts and HARO and all that, I do have to come down on his side. Too many people want to just “bounce something off you” or pick your brain and while I do try, like Peter, to be helpful, I’ve had the experience on more than one occasion of giving people that generous hour or two of my time and then finding them going off and implementing stuff based on my (free) advice but not engaging me to do the work they asked me about.

It’s still a case-by-case thing, but I do agree with Peter broadly that if you don’t put a value on it, then other people won’t either. Look at the problems the news business has now trying to get people to pay for content.

And I don’t think $400 is unreasonable if you’re Peter Shankman. There’s a track record of experience there that can command a premium, like Brogan and some others. But I also think many people in the communications consulting space (broadly the PR and social media types all together) are under-compensating themselves.

We shouldn’t have to apologize for our rates.

“We charge a fair price for the value we deliver.”

How about using that as a response when someone complains about the fee, instead of immediately getting defensive and offering to do it for less than cost?

Both sides are right, period. Peter (and just about every other commenter here) has to protect their time, because that’s their only product. That’s the same way lawyers, plumbers, doctors, accountants, golf pros, and every other service professionals work.

At the same time, I fear we’re getting to the point where some folks in this biz doth protest too much. Indeed, I’m subject to the same dynamics of people wanting free advice. But you know what? It’s a goddamn honor to be asked. There are literally tens of thousands of people that supposedly understand this stuff, and if someone chooses to ask ME for help, I thank my lucky stars.

Do I inevitably provide that free help? Nope. I wish I could, but I can’t. But, instead of using my rate as a financial velvet rope, I try to ascertain what their true needs and budget are, and recommend/refer them to an appropriately priced resource.

Brogan charges more than me. I charge more than most people. That’s just market forces at play. But instead of complaining that people want help, we should realize that everyone’s a teacher, everyone’s a student, and how you treat each request for assistance (free or otherwise) has a downstream impact on how you’re perceived.

Peter is perfectly right to set limits on his time and how he uses it. Kami is right in proclaiming that there are multiple ways to set those limits, some of which will be interpreted as more/less aggressive. But ultimately, consultants aren’t just voices in the wilderness, they are small companies. Thus, Peter deciding how he wants to limit his time and communicate that message is no different than Hyundai deciding to offer a 10-year warranty. It’s part of a product marketing initiative. Take the personalities and the Twitter part out of the equation, and this whole issue amounts to a single bullet point in a brochure.

Hi Peter,

I am a regular reader of HARO and we have exchanged a few emails and hope to meet you sometime soon. Kami is a great friend and has given me a lot of advice when we first started and from the comments above you have advised numerous people when they needed help.

The takeaway for us readers of both your blogs is:

a) Respect people’s time if you want help.
b) Don’t be demanding but be courteous if you are seeking help and understand that you may get “no” for an answer.

These are pretty basic and common courtesy and I am surprised that many people seem to be misusing their relationship with you and you have every right to say No. If you are a celebrity you may have to manage the process of weeding out requests that you want to help, from the others.

What I would have done differently is :

Peter : I know you are always forthright in your opinion but maybe framed your original tweet a little differently.
Kami : Add a bit more to your post about how managing communications with your constituency i.e people who look to you as an expert – is a huge problem specially where consulting is your livelihood.

I think Kami’s point as I understand it, is that every expert will continue to provide free or reduced rate help where needed at their discretion and not close the door on everyone.

Do you agree ? BTW appreciate helping the small guys through HARO for free :). I hope to pick your brain if I can convince you to have a drink with me when me meet. just kidding :)

Best regards,

Shashi

Here’s the overriding point:

We work haaard for the money…..so haaaard for it honey…

hehehe I know this happens to you a million more times that it happens to me, but it’s crazy annoying, really. :D

The funny part is that people that want handouts never stop to think that EVERYBODY ELSE wants handouts also and if we spent our time considering myriad people’s projects, there wouldn’t be any billable hours left in the day for us to do the exact same thing for people that are already paying us to do it.

I understand why the $400/hr statement would be scoffed at, but that’s what people deserve for trying to retain a consultant either for the price of dinner/drinks/coffee or entirely free.

I feel the same way.. If it’s something short, I might donate 5 minutes to your project through reading your email, thinking about it, processing a concept, typing it and pressing send. If it’s something major, if your post doesn’t mention what your budget is, I’m not going to respond to it at all.

Peter,

Though this is the first time that I’ve ever commented on your site, I have been a loyal fan of HARO for some time now. I tell countless people about this incredibly valuable and FREE service that gives entrepreneurs like me an opportunity to increase visibility and exposure through interviews of various sorts. Several times I have been interviewed on radio programs that got me great traction. All for free, and all because of HARO. So, I don’t know you personally, but from what I’ve seen and the comments I’ve read…incredibly arrogant and selfish you are not.

As for the post…

Oh, my gosh, yes – right on! I don’t know what goes on in Kami’s world, but I have learned to run for the hills when I hear these phrases:

-I’d like to pick your brain:) Nuf said.

-I have just a quick question for you, got a minute?
It’s never quick and always take more than a minute.

-I’d like to get to know more about your business, maybe we can be a referral source for each other, let’s meet.
As someone noted earlier, what they really want to do is tell you all about their business and try to sell you something. No real interest in me at all.

-Barb, you should meet so & so, because I think your businesses are complimentary and you can probably help each other.
This usual means one of two things…the folks are competition (the person making the suggestion is obviously blind to that fact), OR they are brand new in business, don’t have a clue yet and not much of a network, so….you guessed it…they want to pick my brain:)

With all that said, I absolutely do believe in helping people as much as possible. And, at some point, I’m my own rainmaker. If I am so busy giving it all away for free, my mortgage doesn’t get paid. What is about that concept that Kami has missed?

Thanks for putting this out there! As business owners, it is our right to determine when we give it away for free. If your tweet ruffled some feathers, Peter. Good. Much as Kami tried to make this about what “she believes” is appropriate online behavior, I feel like she missed the bigger point!

There’s a wonderful video on YouTube that is worth seeing again. It’s called “The Vendor Client Relationship in the Real World” and is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

Here was my line today. “If you don’t have any budget for this project, then why did you call me”?

I’ve been watching this from afar- it’s hard to belief a single tweet could generate the level of emotion in this conversation.

Just a couple points:

If someone publicly said something I said was arrogant, even if they didn’t use my name, I’d feel offended. Most of us would, so I don’t think it’s appropriate to say Peter shouldn’t take it personally. Period.

However, I question why so many people are condemning Kami for insinuating that Peter should dole out advice for free to anyone who asks, or that a rate of $400 an hour is excessive. Did I miss something in her post? Nowhere in her post did she ever comment on working for free, hourly rates, or any of this. She never said Peter should consult for free. Her post was about arrogance in social media. What disappoints me is that I truly believe a number of people have commented without reading the original post, which Peter even linked to in his post.

Peter brought up a great argument about the uncomfortable situation of being asked for free consult, however, I think that’s a separate discussion from what Kami had originally intended. Both are good food for thought.

Peter comment = free speech = who cares if it’s arrogant? who is to say it is?
everyone takes themselves so seriously…
I think it’s arrogant to put “APR” after your name…

My expertise, ideas and advice are all intellectual property. My ability to offer strategy where many are tacticians, is how I get paid! You are absolutely correct. Everyone thinks they are just asking you for a favor, but a doctor doesn’t take out your stitches as a favor — he charges for it. And yes, I am an APR.

Peter, thank you! Kudos to you for telling it like it is, and empowering all of us to do the same. I’m SO tired of being asked for free coaching, consulting, and marketing help. Today, someone asked for a free session (or two) and I found out later that they currently make mid-six figures. I’m really scratching my head about the amazing nerve so many people have to ask for free help (and my stunning ability to say yes!). Clearly, there’s a sign on my back that says, “I’m a sucker for those in need – take advantage of me.” No more! The last straw has been snapped! Thanks, Peter, you got me back on track and re-stengthening my boundaries. Very grateful! Kathy

By the way, those who can command $400 an hour and are worth it and continually make their clients happy…amen to that. K

Perhaps worse than those who would obtain your time and expertise for free are those well meaning souls who have nothing to do and feel that you should take time to do it with them.

It is interesting to me that you are such a significant stakeholder in social media and you are implying that everything should be paid for. The Internet is crowdsourced, mostly by people who don’t earn a penny off of it.

This post would seem relevant to me as soon as you start charging for your blog.

I’m a little late to this party, and I agree with the perception that other people’s time is often devalued.

My husband is a videographer and frequently gets requests from people who have seen his stuff online (FB, twitter, etc) who want him to edit, or even shoot & edit, video for them. They can’t pay much (or, even, at all) but they will offer a copy of their new $800 program free which he can then (apparently) use to generate more income than he would have gotten from doing their work. If they were willing to pay him. Which they aren’t.

Takes “pick your brain” to a whole new level.

Peter, I’ve said this on other sites but I did not find the tweet arrogant. I saw the humor and truth of it and totally felt your pain. I am not famous (not even close) but even without your explanation I knew exactly what you meant by the “brain pickers.” I have also had the “will you mentor me?” I’m happy to mentor and learned great advice on how to direct that from Alan Vengel’s book 20 Minutes to a Top Performer. Askers and givers both have a responsibility. It’s not mean to value your time and require others to do the same.

Peter, um, excuse me, I want what you’re making :) I adore freedom of speech. Although, it’s not always free, just as our freedom’s not free. Sometimes you get what you don’t pay for and sometimes you pay for what you get. Double dutch lunch with me anytime you’re in Denver, extended to Peter and/or Kami. Now we’re on the record, not the clock, the record.

Came here through a random article. Don’t know either Peter or Kami. Agree with Peter 100 percent. Kami seems disingenuous as she must have known that everyone would look up the source of the tweet. She also must not know the power of exaggeration. Although not sure it really is exaggeration. Twelve years ago my employer charged $210/hr. for my time. Who knows what it might be today for that same level (I left about then).