Peter Shankman

314 Responses to “How Not to Act on J-Date”

#1 Kiersten Smith on 17, Jul, 2006 at 10:26 pm

This is seriously disturbing behavior, and i’m not joking. It’s time to RUN, not walk, in the other direction when this guy approaches. Very scary.

#2 heidi on 17, Jul, 2006 at 10:26 pm

unnnnnn-beeeeeee-lievableeeeeeeeee. seriously, all you can do is laugh! thanks for posting that. i’m linking a few friends now. cheers -hh

#3 Pamela on 17, Jul, 2006 at 11:51 pm

oh. my. god. I (almost) can’t believe it. But I heard the taped proof!

#4 guest on 18, Jul, 2006 at 10:45 am

quote: ” I have learned that age really does
not matter; so why limit any possibilities in finding a life long
partner. Wouldn’t you agree?”

This is coming from a person who is going to a jewish only dating service. Oh the irony.

#5 guest on 18, Jul, 2006 at 11:09 am

“I didn’t know that your paying the bill was contingent on me going out with you again.”

Ok, even though I think this guy is way out of line, maybe the ladies out there should really, really insist on paying half when you know you never want to see this guy again. Not because of weirdo’s like this guy, because maybe it is the right thing to do. An example of this is buying a drink for a girl at a bar. My friend did this, offered a lady a drink, she accepted, talking to him for about 30 seconds and promptly walked away with her drink. He walked up to her and said something along the lines of ‘how dare you?! You know as well as I do that that drink isn’t really a drink, it’s says I like you would you like to talk and get to know each other better. And accepting the drink is accepting this offer.’

And you know what he’s right. That is what the drink signifies.

So I guess the question is, what does the custom of the man paying for dinner (at least the first one, if not a few more) signify?

Hmm, maybe some sexist things here but the one thing that jumps out it symbolizes being a provider. It’s old school crap but that basically is what it is.

Now, we’ve all been on a few dates that didn’t go the greatest. And one/both parties decide that’s it. But one goes home and chalks it up to experience and the other does the same minus some cash. Now as the guy, if I feel I enjoyed the date and somehow I am misreading her and think there is potential for another date, of course I’m going to be ‘a gentleman’ and pay, to do otherwise would be dating suicide.

So if thats being a gentleman, maybe being ‘a lady’ is insisting to (and I mean insisting not just the one kindly offer, as that can impress a man and make him like you even more) go dutch when you know you never want to see this guy again.

#6 playfulkitten on 18, Jul, 2006 at 11:53 am

The thing is, though, that she did intend to contact him again about seeing each other after that. However, he jumped the gun: he couldn’t reach her immediately, so he flipped out on her. She saw that and immediately changed her mind, naturally.

I also don’t think him declining her offer to go dutch entitles him to any second date rights, not even in the same ballpark as buying someone a drink in a bar for the obvious purpose of chatting someone up. Besides, she hadn’t decided not to see him again at the point the bill was up for discussion.

I’d say the best policy on a date, especially a (mostly) blind one is for both parties to be happy to go dutch, then take it from there. If you’re going to insist on paying the whole bill (male or female) understand it doesn’t entitle you to so much as a “sorry, not interested” email after the fact.

(P.S. to the blog tech: I signed into TypeKey which removes the name/email/URL fields, but it gave me an error and has me fill ‘em in after I try to post. No biggie, just thought I’d mention it.)

#7 Trix on 18, Jul, 2006 at 12:54 pm

Would you please forward Darren’s personal info to my email address? He sounds like my kind of guy.

Oy.

#8 ks on 18, Jul, 2006 at 12:54 pm

guest - call me old fashioned, but i believe if a man asks a woman out on a first date - regardless of how it goes - he should pay and not take money from her. it’s just tacky. he should take her to a place that’s within his budget, preparing himself for either situation (good or bad) and understand that it’s all a part of being “out there”. if you’re worried about money, go for coffee. not a coffee drinker? take a walk around the park and grab an iced tea. you should know that women talk, and if a man does accept cash from her on a first date, he’s immediately put on the dating black-list. just some insight from a gal who’s “out there”…

#9 Joy on 18, Jul, 2006 at 2:02 pm

To the male commenter above, the key points to remember are that Darren got the idea AFTER the meal that Joanne wasn’t interested, and that Joanne in fact was interested in a second date.

When the check comes, a woman could offer to pay if she has already decided that she’s not interested in seeing the man further. But typical etiquette for dates is that whoever does the inviting is responsible for paying. Darren chose an expensive restaurant with the full knowledge that dating itself is a crap shoot.

And as for your drink-buying friend, that’s a crap shoot also. Ladies should be polite and kind in these situations, but drink-buying is not quid pro quo for 10 minutes of conversation. The drink does not “signify” anything, and accepting one is not a tacit agreement to get to know the buyer better to the buyer’s satisfaction.

#10 Josh Morgan on 19, Jul, 2006 at 3:16 am

God I’m happy that I’m married.

#11 Freakish Tuscan Villa on 19, Jul, 2006 at 2:48 pm

Maybe my Yiddish is a bit off, but if this clown is asking her to be a mensch, perhaps he should look in the mirror and discover the shlameil he really is. On behalf of all the decent guys out there, Daren, please “Ech hob dir in drerd”

#12 guest on 19, Jul, 2006 at 7:26 pm

“The drink does not “signify” anything, ”

But yes it does. If not then what is this strange phenomenon of men buying total strangers drinks. Hi, I’m joe would like a drink? There ya go, thanks come again’. Everything in dating is rituals. Not as primative as they once were, but rituals none the less. I hate to repeat myself but c’mon, you know the man is offering the drink is really saying ‘You are attractive to me and I’m making an attempt to get to know you better, are you interested as well?’.

That’s what it means plain and simple.

#13 Owen Lystrup on 19, Jul, 2006 at 8:01 pm

This sounds like something I saw on People’s Court last week.

#14 Gawker on 20, Jul, 2006 at 3:12 pm

Blogorrhea NYC: The City of Bitterness and Desperation

Threatening someone via email, voicemail and summons has to be the most effective way to deal with an unsuccessful…

#15 slinkybender on 20, Jul, 2006 at 3:42 pm

Money invariably ruins my relationships with women — except, of course, where it makes them possible at all.

#16 Vayacondia on 20, Jul, 2006 at 3:49 pm

Unreal. I am soooo glad that I don’t have to date anymore. If I found myself single once again, I think I’d stay that way.

#17 Susan on 20, Jul, 2006 at 4:22 pm

Well, as a Jewish person this certainly doesn’t do a lot to dispell stereotypes does it. What a fucking loser. Thank god I’m a dyke. We have losers but they are a little less scary.

#18 Yoshi on 20, Jul, 2006 at 4:25 pm

That guy is really is sick….is it that serious?

#19 Michele on 20, Jul, 2006 at 5:14 pm

The same thing happened to me with a guy I met on JDate, but he asked for $20.00. I told him to wait by the mailbox, bet he is still there!

#20 me on 20, Jul, 2006 at 5:15 pm

guest, why not try talking to the person FIRST and then if they seem interested offer to buy them a drink. Wouldn’t that make more sense?
Also, I had an older male co-worker who gave me this pearl of wisdom: If a man offers to buy you a drink he is very well aware of the fact that you could say yes and simply walk away. Only men who like to gamble should ever offer a woman a drink. So Take the Drink and walk away already!

#21 ginpoopoo on 20, Jul, 2006 at 5:21 pm

This guy is a complete NARCISSIST and/or MYSOGYNIST!
He probably expects to get laid if he gives a girl a backrub.
Don’t give things and expect things in return, Darren. When you don’t get those things, going all psycho is NOT ok. Grow UP!

#22 David on 20, Jul, 2006 at 5:25 pm

whoa…

oh, and to the guys who believe that buying a drink for someone entitles you to a conversation, uhm…. not so much.

When you choose to buy a drink, you’re taking a risk just as if you’d decided to walk up and talk to the person (who has every right to walk off then too). Instead of trying to strike up a conversation, YOU chose the drink probably because YOU were more comfortable with using that method as your excuse to talk to her.

Maybe your friend creeped her out after she accepted? Maybe she was drunk? Maybe she had a boyfriend? Who knows, and who cares? It’s all irrelevant; the target of your affection is not obligated to stick around for any length of time or even speak to you beyond saying “Thank you.”

Seriously, suck it up. If losing the $8 to $12 is going to bother you that much, then just try saying “Hi. Are you here with anyone?”

#23 Are you kidding me? on 20, Jul, 2006 at 5:25 pm

Um…I think what I find slightly more disturbing than Darren’s actions are the responses by men who think this whole scenario should be acceptable. No woman should have to “INSIST” on paying half the bill more than once. If you don’t jump and say, hey that’s a great idea, the first time she offers, you’re an idiot, cut your losses and move on. The same rules apply when you offer to buy a woman a drink at a bar. You are entitled to NOTHING. If you don’t want to lose, DON’T OFFER!! Now, don’t get me wrong, IF I were single and someone offered to buy me a drink I would feel grateful and definitely chat with whoever bought it for me for probably the duration of the drink. It’s the polite thing to do. BUT if you say something in the first few minutes that completely offends me, threatens me, creeps me out, turns me off, or makes me uncomfortable I am G-O-N-E gone. Do any of you play Texas Hold ‘em? If you bet the first couple of times and then decide you have nothing after seeing the 4th card, you don’t get your chips back because you have shit in your hand. Kick yourself in the ass and GET OVER IT!

#24 js on 20, Jul, 2006 at 6:20 pm

As a former jdater, I’ve been that girl! I’ve gone on PLENTY of first dates and let the suitor pay for my portion. However, the difference with me and her is I never offer to go dutch.

Now, I’m sure you’re thinking “bitch, such a JAP.” Cut me some slack, they asked me on the date ie; dinner, dessert, drinks
If it was up to me, our first date would be in Central park. No food, or bill required- just get-to-know you without too much pressure…

Yes, his tactics and “follow-up” are atrocious and completely childish. However, I’m surprised I’ve never received this sort of treatment—makes me think twice about first dates and my etiquette after .

Bottom line, you have to feel sorry for the guy. He probably has no clue what a psycho he is being and wonders why he can’t keep a girl around!!!

#25 Titsley LeMieux on 20, Jul, 2006 at 6:50 pm

Actually “guest” my acceptance of the drink is payment for all the fantasy role play you were doing with me in your head. Get over yourself. Sometimes it’s payment for the g-d damn interruption. I’m not interested in you, I’m out with my friends and you’re bothering me.

#26 Joy on 20, Jul, 2006 at 7:04 pm

“…a drink isn’t really a drink, it says I like you, would you like to talk and get to know each other better. And accepting the drink is accepting this offer. That is what the drink signifies.”

Guest, how long would have been acceptable before walking away? A minute, five minutes? If the drink buyer comes across immediately as a creep, do I have to stand there with my drink for ten minutes because I “accepted his offer to get to know him better”? No, I do not.

I agree with comments from David and Are you kidding me? Get to know the girl for awhile before offering to buy her a drink. “Can I buy you a drink” should not be your opening line. Better yet, guest, stay out of the bar scene.

#27 raincoaster on 20, Jul, 2006 at 7:54 pm

For god’s sake, buying a drink for someone is an attention-getting device, not a sophisticated form of renting them. Once you’ve got their attention, they can make their decision from there. It guarantees nothing other than that they will pay attention to you momentarily.

As for the suggestion that all women offer to go dutch when they never want to see the guy again: some of us are just generous sorts. I always offer to go Dutch if I can afford it, because it’s a nice thing to do. What if the guy thought I’d put him in the trash bin and was offering to split the bill because I thought he was a cane toad? Besides, even Miss Manners says that the person who asks, pays, regardless of gender.

#28 ANP on 20, Jul, 2006 at 11:11 pm

Oh sure, he gets to pay with his AmEx and earn the MR points; she has to pay with cash sans rewards?!?! Nice try!

Phew, so glad my luck on JDate has been better.

Great post.

#29 akaria on 21, Jul, 2006 at 1:29 am

Congrats PR guy! You’ve posted an embellished urban legend that’s been going round the internet since 2004. Maybe you and the pro-lifer guy who wrote about that Onion piece can be pen pals.

#30 dutchie on 21, Jul, 2006 at 1:41 am

tradition says man pays for woman. this comes i think from the primal instinct that the man should be able to provide food for the woman before she engages with him sexually. her depency on him for bringing her food whilst pregnant is enormous of course. doesn’t matter whether she has a high paying job or works for minimum wage. at some point she will physically be unable to provide food for herself and her unborn child. unfortunately, this clashes with the instinct of man, having to impregnate as many women as possible, in order for the race to survive.

feminism has kind off destroyed the rationale behind conventional rules, that is, in the hetero world.
how do gay people do this i wonder? with reason?

i agree with most of what you say, except for guest of course.
i mean geez, you can’t even date anymore, take a slight chance, or someone calls your work etc.? the guy is completely irrational and super scary, he has no idea of reality whatsoever. i feel a bit sorry for the woman, i would hate to have to deal with this. what a waste of time.
in the end this story is an extreme situation. i guess it was at her risk as well, for putting herself out there in order to find a man. usually when you force it the last thing you get is the desired effect. but then, you can’t win if you don’t take a risk.

#31 empty spaces on 21, Jul, 2006 at 2:16 am

pretty strange story, but as they say “Life immitates cheap TV shows!”

#32 raj on 21, Jul, 2006 at 2:17 am

While I do not side with supercreep, I’ve had many female friends + acquaintances who bragged about how they tricked guys into buying them drinks then ignored them. Sorry to whomever said otherwise above, but it’s a known ritual that accepting a drink is supposed to mean: Okay, I’ll put up with you for a few minutes. If you’re nice, I’ll stay. If not, I’ll walk away.

But taking the drink and walking away makes a woman give other women a bad name. And provokes kooks.

Don’t want to talk to the guy, then don’t take the drink. Not sure? Take the drink, converse, then say you have to go see a friend - or whatever.

Like the guy after a few minutes? Hey, buy him a drink, if you can.

#33 Kat on 21, Jul, 2006 at 3:50 am

Okay, this is why I’m single. And maybe a guy shouldn’t take a FIRST date to an expensive restaurant, especially when they’ve never met! This guy gives men a bad name. Maybe he should pay her back for wasting her time on his clearly boring date.

#34 JAH on 21, Jul, 2006 at 9:44 am

Did Joanne contact J-Date to let them know about this? If not, she should and soon. They should kick this loser Sherman off of J-Date for good.

#35 Caliban on 21, Jul, 2006 at 11:14 am

I don’t think this is an urban legend — Darren Sherman is real, and the information posted here about him in his resume checks out. Also, the audio clips? I’m pretty sure this guy is for real — and that he’s really never going to date again after this.

#36 Chode on 21, Jul, 2006 at 11:16 am

Ah… this thing is endlessly hilarious! Peter, it sounds like this guy needs a publicist of his own. His interview with Lloyd Grove definitely didn’t do him much good.

#37 Arnell Boone on 21, Jul, 2006 at 12:11 pm

Help support Joanne’s legal fund and get one of these great shirts.. You ate the food, You drank the wine - Do the right thing. Be a mensch
http://www.cafepress.com/darrenator

#38 Jordan Knight on 21, Jul, 2006 at 12:20 pm

Brings back nostalgic memories of when I lived in Florida…too funny!

#39 puck_finn on 21, Jul, 2006 at 12:25 pm

All of this talk about the etiquette of accepting drinks/dinner is beside the point.

The point is that this Darren character felt that it was his privilege (or, it seems, his RIGHT) to threaten and harass this woman.
This man repeatedly invaded her space.

Everything else is moot.

She should file whatever charges she can against him.

#40 Andrew G. on 21, Jul, 2006 at 1:33 pm

Can somebody /please/ make sure this is worked into a Law & Order: SVU plot at some point? Incredible…

#41 Darren on 21, Jul, 2006 at 3:13 pm

I would just like to point out that what you are all doing on this board is libel, and if you’re talking about me behind my back in a public manner, it’s slander. So, if you don’t mind, I’d like you all to do the right thing and submit me a personal apology as well as a correction to any/everyone who you mentioned this occurrence to. I think we can all agree it would be the right thing… You read the story, you wrote the comments, now repent your sins.

#42 Joe on 21, Jul, 2006 at 4:32 pm

I could not imagine suggesting a woman go dutch with me, nevermind asking to be REPAID by her. Absolutely hysterical. Guys, you go on a date, you pay. Wanna go dutch, go out with a friend.

#43 Anna on 21, Jul, 2006 at 5:04 pm

“You know as well as I do that that drink isn’t really a drink, it’s says I like you would you like to talk and get to know each other better.”

I have often declined drinks from men who are at the bar (club, restaurant) with their wives or girlfriends. (And the fact that they are there with someone is no secret) How do we explain this phenomenon? Wait, I take that back, I did accept a drink from a married man once after having a long (political) discussion with him and his wife. Although our opinions differed greatly, I saw the gesture of offering me a drink showed that there were no hard feelings. At the point when the drink was offered, I was already talking to a different group of people and his wife wasn’t around. I took the drink but continued talking to this new group. And someone reprimanded me saying, “I think he meant he wanted to talk to you.”

Did I commit some faux pas? Or was I right to interpret this gesture as I did?

#44 Dm Rod Co. on 21, Jul, 2006 at 5:12 pm

Sorry to the gal this happened to. this guy is serioulsy disturbed. Please file a restraining order now ! I have dated gal’s that we never seemed to click and NEVER would I ever consider this type behavior.

#45 YiddishMarine on 21, Jul, 2006 at 5:48 pm

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen. What a putz! What the fuck were you thinking Darren? You will never get laid again. Even hookers will avoid you. Strip clubs will have you on the “keep out” board. Your own dog won’t even hump your leg anymore because you asked him to chip in for the dog food. Good luck to you in that move to Fargo since your personal life is now destroyed just about everywhere else. Way to fuck yourself in the internet age!

#46 guest on 21, Jul, 2006 at 6:43 pm

Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but even buying a drink for a lady doesn’t mandate _anything_ . It is an invitation to chat for the duration of the drink; but if the lady feels like it, she’s free to walk away. Stop treating a woman like a piece of property, and maybe you will meet someone you like.

You cheapskates give the rest of us single men a bad name.

#47 BirdmanTexas on 21, Jul, 2006 at 6:45 pm

What a moron and regarding guest’s comment about this behavior being on the same level as a woman accepting a drink and walking away I have only one comment - if you can’t afford the drink or the dinner, don’t offer to buy ..or go somewhere cheaper -as KS suggested.

I’ve been dating longer than I had anticipated I would have in this lifetime but alwayst try to be a gentelman. I’m always the first to open a door, stand-up for a lady or buy a drink if it seems appropriate / not creepy and sometimes just because. I do this not because I expect something in return be it a date, conversation or anything else. All that is expected in return is a thank you or a kind gesture from across the bar. Funny thing is, it has been good even though I don’t expect it as I’ve gotten several dates, but usually from a woman sitting next to me or a friend or down the road from another woman who appreciates a man who is just NOT A CREEP like this guy.

Oh well, good look to all of ya’ll out there in dating land. It sad but funny to see jokers like this guy out there.

#48 Jason on 21, Jul, 2006 at 6:50 pm

You should cue in the theme to “Twilight Zone” whenever starting this…

#49 FlyingFred on 21, Jul, 2006 at 7:17 pm

“Should I bring all of my shoes too?”

(for the Jerky Boys fans out there)

#50 jerkius on 21, Jul, 2006 at 7:25 pm

wow. just wow.

when i take chicks out, i always pay and i dont ask them for money.

well i have once, that was only because i had a budget of 200$ on the date, and the chick ended up living over 80 miles away.

/and i only asked her for 10$ just to make sure i had enough gas to get home
//drives a 94 integra LS
///built engine
////uns 13.2 on a 50shot of NOS

#51 Marcy on 21, Jul, 2006 at 7:47 pm

What an utterly creepy story, yet oddly hilarious (in a sad way) at the same time. Of course, I say that only because it isn’t happening to ME. The comments section is quite entertaining as well. I will be linking this to a forum I moderate - our own comment section ought be a hoot, being as the percentage of male members to female runs around 1,000 to 1.

Addressing a few of the comments I’ve read, in my 40+ years I have found that if you ask men what they believe, having a woman accept a drink that you’ve bought for her does lead them to think - however wrongly - that it entitles them to something…a few words, and an opening for conversation. Not since the early eighties, have I known any man who assumes buying a woman a drink, entitles him to more than that. (I’m female, in case anyone was wondering ;D)

I have a couple casual female acquaintances who think it’s a hoot to get men to buy them drinks in bars, then they lead those men on to keep getting free drinks. The whole sorry thing always ends with them ditching the guys by sneaking out a side door, and going off to a different bar. Notice I said “acquaintances.” I could never be friends with anyone who thought such a shoddy way of behaving, was acceptible or even funny. I would also not be friends with any man who thought that if a date went badly, it was okay to punish his partner by in effect, charging her for his time. Does that mean if it had went well, he could lay out more money and purchase sexual favors? Darren sounds like a real piece of work…or a guy used to paying professionals for “dates.”

When I’ve been offered drinks by strangers, I refuse. Always. Unless I already know you, and you are just picking up this round, you’ll get a thanks but no thanks and a smile. I make my own money, and buy my own drinks. On dates, I always pull my money out when the bill comes, regardless of who invited whom. If my date gets insulted, that’s his problem. We can discuss it, of course. “You can get the next one” works in a pinch, if he seems too upset.

I’ve actually found that turning down a drink, and then taking the time to explain why, has led to some highly entertaining conversations and even dates in some cases. Engaging a person in conversation without any money being involved, always works best.

That isn’t “women’s Lib,” it’s common sense. If you can pay your way, do so. It’s your responsibility as an adult. Men are not obligated to pay for what a woman wants.

My personal bottom line, is that I refuse to feel obligated - even in a truly minor way - to someone I do not know well. Even if the “obligation” is tenuous at best. I’m quite sure many people will disagree with me, but that is exactly what’s so great about being human - we get to decide upon our own personal codes of behavior, that others are not obligated to follow along with. What works for me, may not work for you.

#52 Gus on 21, Jul, 2006 at 7:49 pm

This guy worked for the SEC and is in a prominent position in the regulatory business on Wall Street. God help us!

#53 rob michaels on 21, Jul, 2006 at 7:55 pm

this guy is hilarious. is it my imagination or does he does he sound alot like saul rosenburg, one of the sketches from the jerkey boys?

and as far as having her pay back her portion, i do believe if a man like myself pays all, than that means the bill is settled, even if you never see that woman again? comeon, it’s 50 friggen dollars?! i mean, how many thousands of dollars have i spent dating, and i never once asked to be payed back or reembursed.

#54 jim on 21, Jul, 2006 at 8:23 pm

The article is a riot. I imagine this guy’s friends and coworkers have all recognized him or soon will. I bet this is going to do wonders for his dating frequency.

#55 ahaight on 21, Jul, 2006 at 8:24 pm

Whoever extends the invitation should pay. That’s the way dating works. It’s also the way other sorts of social meal invitations work. End of story.

This guy is an asshat, but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I do, unfortunately, know some Jews who are exactly like this, if perhaps not quite so creepy about it. I also know some Jews who are normal.

#56 jim on 21, Jul, 2006 at 8:26 pm

Jerkius,

I agree with you. Buying someone a drink doesn’t entitle the guy anything. It’s only an opening line itself.

However, those types of women that like to lead guys on to buy them drinks all night are exactly why I don’t date. I have no trust in people, especially in bars.

#57 jsh on 21, Jul, 2006 at 9:11 pm

What was creepiest to me was his very calm and businesslike voice, coupled to the repetetive and redundant nature of his words. Just … creepy.

Almost as if, on one hand, he still expected her to be seduced by the lulling tones and fall in obediant love with him.

When the message and the tone are so opposed - I start to think psychopath.

#58 Bill on 21, Jul, 2006 at 9:16 pm

A first date with somebody is a way to get to know them better and learn something about their character and personality. Looks like that worked really well for Joanne - now she knows everything she’d want to about this loser, and so do hundreds of other women…

Letting a guy buy you a drink and then walking away is rude - though sometimes the guy deserves it. But unless you’re playing some hard-to-get game and hoping he’ll follow you, at least chug the drink before leaving instead of walking off with it.

#59 James Vergon on 21, Jul, 2006 at 10:15 pm

Its jewish people like this, that give jewish people like me a bad name. This guy needs to be kicked hard in the matzo balls.

#60 Callie on 21, Jul, 2006 at 11:55 pm

Just disgusting!!!! James Vergon, you are right! It is slime like this that gives Jews a bad rap! There is NOTHING more disgusting than a cheap person, and–unfortunately–Jews have this reputation. No wonder when you hear stories like this!!!!!

To Darren: You cheap, disgusting bastard! You sicken me!

#61 Rolla on 21, Jul, 2006 at 11:59 pm

Man, this is something George Costanza would do. Only somehow both funnier and scarier at the same time.

#62 jim on 22, Jul, 2006 at 12:05 am

Did the guy sound like woody allen to anyone else?

#63 raincoaster on 22, Jul, 2006 at 2:01 am

Snopes has been reporting this as an urban legend for years.

SNOPES IS WRONG.

As Mr. PRDifferently himself emailed me, Lowdown, the gossip column, contacted China Grill and confirmed this story. It is true.

That Snopes has had similar stories (with the name Darren) for years just seems to indicate this wasn’t a one-time thing.

I feel sorry for all the OTHER Darrens who are going to have to start using their middle names or sumpin’.

#64 raincoaster on 22, Jul, 2006 at 5:26 am

Slight correction: Snopes didn’t say it was wrong. Snopes only listed it as something going around and unconfirmed. Ah, in that case it’s corroboration!

#65 Jerry Nunn on 22, Jul, 2006 at 6:38 am

How much did the China Grill pay you for this piece of marketing genious? And how do I find a gig such as that? Either way, I must say it was fairly well done. And I bet it has been reservation only for the past few days.

#66 John Davidson on 22, Jul, 2006 at 8:47 am

Darren or someone who professes to be Darren Wrote:
I would just like to point out that what you are all doing on this board is libel, and if you’re talking about me behind my back in a public manner, it’s slander. So, if you don’t mind, I’d like you all to do the right thing and submit me a personal apology as well as a correction to any/everyone who you mentioned this occurrence to. I think we can all agree it would be the right thing… You read the story, you wrote the comments, now repent your sins.

Please note that it’s only libel (written defamation of character) if it’s not true. I guess you’re out of luck.

#67 James Cates on 22, Jul, 2006 at 9:08 am

What a tool.

It also disturbs me to see so many comments here that seem to support Darren’s behavior. If you pay for something without a signed contract of some sort specifying that someone else owes you, say, half of that amount, then you simply GAVE it to them. You GIFTED her dinner, Darren. How can it be any more complex than that?

I also saw this nugget “Letting a guy buy you a drink and then walking away is rude - though sometimes the guy deserves it…”. It has NOTHING to do with the guy and whether he deserves it. He GAVE you a drink, you still retain the right to go anywhere you wish after he hands it to you. It would be “rude” not to at least say “Thanks”. After that, do what the hell you like…I GAVE you a drink.

It’s so painful to read these idiotic takes on the situation. You guys who see ANY grain of “right” in Darren’s behavior are alone for a reason. You DO NOT GET IT. Life, that is.

#68 Jack Abuhoff on 22, Jul, 2006 at 9:33 am

This guy sounds arrogant. And to make sure this blog is picked up every time someone searches him on Google:

Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman Darren Sherman

#69 AudioMonger on 22, Jul, 2006 at 12:42 pm

Wow that guy is completely out of line. This isn’t right in any conceivable way.

I do, however, sort of agree with the drink thing. It’s not that the woman is obligated to stay and talk to a guy, but the acceptance of drink offer is sort of an aquiesence of interest. If the woman isn’t interested in speaking with the guy, she shouldn’t accept the drink offer.

Nevertheless, it’s pretty lame to just walk up and offer to buy a woman a drink without speaking to her. The guy should establish whether or not she’s interested first.

#70 Lionsqtpi on 22, Jul, 2006 at 2:05 pm

To the guy who made comments about girls getting drinks at the bar.

I go out on a regular basis. Most of the time WITH my boyfriend. Usually when a guy buys me a drink he doesn’t even ask me if I want it. He buys it from the bartender. NORMALLY if a guy buys an alcoholic beverage (at a bar) without speaking to you first, his intentions are less than savory. So, I figure if he wants to buy me a drink without even talking to me first, then it’s his problem when he finds out that I have a boyfriend. I DO stay to talk for a bit and actually get to know the person though. UNLESS he gets creepy or pushy. When that happens I walk away. If I was the girl your friend confronted, I probably would have grabbed a bouncer. Maybe she wasn’t right for walking off after 30 seconds, but he needs to learn from that next time.

What this all boils down to for me, is that men screw women over EVERY day. So if a girl finds a way for a few free drinks…well, God forbid.

#71 Stephen Bailey on 22, Jul, 2006 at 5:13 pm

Um … wow … yeah … I have nothing else … just … wow!!

#72 Un jour à la fois on 22, Jul, 2006 at 6:07 pm

Cashanova

Ils se sont contactés sur un site de rencontres, il linvite à dîner, à la fin elle propose de payer sa part, il refuse, ils ne se revoient pas tout de suite, mais elle r…

#73 Jakob on 22, Jul, 2006 at 8:16 pm

Wow, lucky for Joanne that she was outta town so she’d find out how sick Darren was before she got to “know him better”. What a stupid creep this guy is. I agree with you Peter Shankman, this is unbelievable.

#74 Shaolos on 22, Jul, 2006 at 8:40 pm

…a drink isn’t really a drink, it says I like you, would you like to talk and get to know each other better. And accepting the drink is accepting this offer. That is what the drink signifies.”

Actually it is not. Accepting the drink is accepting the drink, everything else is false values that signify that you have to buy women’s time, which in itself is extremely pathetic.

#75 Stunko Buttershine on 22, Jul, 2006 at 10:39 pm

I know this man. He is a good man. He is frined to the hole Buttershine famibly. He s a good man with woman and. He is not foolish, and is vvery smart in bed. I am ashamde of this woman and. Arent you ashamde of yourslefs?

#76 Deus Ex Machina on 23, Jul, 2006 at 12:20 am

links for 2006-07-23

Playstation Magazine #1 - September 1997 (tags: VideoGames magazines retro Sony nostalgia PDF) Sega Visions Magazine - Summer 1991 (tags: VideoGames magazines retro Sega nostalgia PDF) How Not to Act on J-Date with e-mails and voicemails as proof of…

#77 Dex on 23, Jul, 2006 at 12:34 am

A Contract - Offer and Acceptance.

A contract is formed when a clear offer is communicated and accepted and when that offer and acceptance is understood with equity between the parties to the agreement thus forming a contract. “I will go out with you again if you buy me drinks and dinner” would have been a contract. “Thank you for the drinks and dinner. I’ll call you” is however a promise, not a contract, thus being unenforceable. So there we have a contract and a promise, two separate and distinct things. Now we examine the right of recovery versus the implication of stalking. A man paying for a woman on a first date, whether “sexist” or not is such a normal occurrence as to be deemed by a reasonable person as such a traditional display of courtship as to imply no further right of recovery should such a courtship fail. Given the refusal in the first instance to go Dutch it is indeed a spent opportunity. It is a well known tenet of law that an individual cannot make decisions based on information contained soely within the head of another person. The gentleman may have surmised what he wished about the possibility of other dates but did not communicate that the the lady. In any contract you cannot accept by mere silence, silence is never acceptance. You cannot scrawl a note to say if you do nothing then we have a contract. Therefore there is no right of recovery. The lady did make it expressly clear in her written communications that she no longer wished to be contacted. The gentleman continued. He then further made mention that he would involve others and indeed created a false belief with the restaurant with saw them vicariously pursue her on the gentlemans behalf. This behaviour falls within the bounds of what a reasonable person calls stalking, that is to harrass or intimidate a person directly or indirectly and to continue to comminucate without just cause after such a person has made it abundantly clear that to do so is unwelcome. That’s all legalese. My opinion is much simpler - the guy is obviously a needy cockhead with poor interpersonal skills and behavioural patterns at least two standard deviations from the norm who should either appear in court or be beaten in an alley with dead cats.

#78 Paul on 23, Jul, 2006 at 1:29 am

Creeps like Darren Sherman sure “help” the decent guys in the world. Must be another one who thinks he’s God’s gift to women.

#79 pat on 23, Jul, 2006 at 2:12 am

hey i just helped a girl move house on a second date and as i was picking up the truck at 5am it ended up on my credit card. After a long saturday of lugging furniture and a friendly goodbye see u round, i havent heard anything back from her a week later.
would it be churlish in this situation to ask for the money back?

#80 loco on 23, Jul, 2006 at 2:38 am

I don’t see how the guy is being a stalker. Stalkers don’t typically send requests for money. The woman repeatedly resorts to personal insults. I’m sure her dating life is great; someone else must have put her profile on jdate.

#81 Josh on 23, Jul, 2006 at 5:13 am

ooookaayy. This one goes into the “weird and creepy as all heck column”. Two ways this is remotely relevant to me are 1.) I am a proud Catholic with plenty of Jewish (and other non-Catholic) friends who has never seen anyone-or at least any guy-act like this. The others are right in that this reienforces the Jews-are-cheap stereotype (which my friends are MOST CERTAINATLY NOT) and 2.) on the 3 “formal/official” dates I have been with my girlfriend I paid. No questions asked. However she finally got a chance to pay herself after vocally insisting on paying after the 1st date. We were driving back down to college in May and stopped at a diner. She proceeded to remove my cash from my wallet prompting a startled “holy shit where’s my money” reaction from yours truly. After which she paid (using HER money mind you) and then gave me back my money. Too funny. Except in a weird romantic way. Not like this prick. Lemme tell you, if Joanne was my sister, I’d have a chat with this prick….and then fix him a nice knuckle sandwich if he refused to see reason.

#82 J.C. on 23, Jul, 2006 at 5:51 am

Eww…What a horrible stereotype to attach to a “J-Date”.

#83 R.B. on 23, Jul, 2006 at 8:47 am

It seems to me that Darren very clearly thought they had an agreement about him paying only on the condition of them meeting again, and she disputes that agreement. If there was such a verbal agreement, it is legally enforceable, she is in breach of it (by not delivering) and he is within his rights to contact her (though not repeatedly like that or through her office) and sue her. Practically such a case would be hopeless as “she said, he said”, if there is no additional support to the asserted contract. The only way Darren could shift the burden of proof to her would be to do a chargeback on the credit card and get the restaurant to sue them as joint defendants based on his refusal to accept sole responsibility for the debt (the restaurant bill), but this would be a PR suicide for the restaurant, so it’s not going to happen either.

We don’t really know what went on the date and if there really was anything resembling an agreement, because we have the selection of “evidence” only from one party to the dispute. Also, if she offered to pay half as she writes, it doesn’t preclude there being a later agreement (for example immediately after) about him paying and them meeting again.

The legal points to the argument don’t change the fact that the guy is an asshole and an idiot by making a big issue about something so trivial and causing him immense loss of reputation over this. Personally I agree with the interpretation of etiquette that that who invites (regardless of gender) is primarily responsible for paying and that it’s definitely bad manners to impose or even suggest conditions to this payment. I would never extend an offer like that (”I pay if we meet again”). To me as a man it seems highly offensive to a reasonable woman.

However, this dispute and the comments clearly illustrate the problems of communication between previously unknown people in a dating situation where there is a “high performance requirement for the throughput” of this communication (that is to say both want to get their message accross with perfect clarity and also to understand what the other person is trying to convey). This is a difficult problem not only because of different pre-existing interpretations of customs and meanings, but also innuendo, non-verbal gestures etc.

That’s why it’s impractical to expect the kind of certainty and clarity as found in business negotiations, when you are trying to impress someone and avoid being too blunt and formal.

What these people should feel lucky about is that they are quibbling over $50 and not alledged “date rape”, where the disagreement is over “She said she wanted” and “I only invited him for a nightcap”…

#84 Dan on 23, Jul, 2006 at 10:47 am

Snopes has been updated to reflect that while this was an urban legend that started back in 2004, the particular story is confirmed.
http://www.snopes.com/love/revenge/paydate.asp

#85 Norma Desmond on 23, Jul, 2006 at 12:25 pm

To the benighted person who claims to have helped someone move on a second date: what were you thinking? Not that her behavior wasn’t unprincipled, but don’t you have the common sense to realize that no one with principles would ask someone they’d just met to help them move and use their credit card to rent the truck? This has nothing to do with ordinary dating behavior, this has to do with allowing yourself to be conned. I’m sorry, you’re probably a very nice, generous person (if you’re not in fact making this up), but please use this as an opportunity to realize that when people make requests of you that aren’t reasonable, you need to learn how to say, “No.” Go ahead and try to dun her for the money, because moving expenses have nothing to do with a date, and never should have. But I doubt you’ll see the money, because I doubt she ever intended to pay you back. There are some very dishonest people in the world, both male and female, and it seems you’ve probably been taken by one of them. I hope the lesson didn’t cost more than you can afford to pay for it.

#86 Cookie on 23, Jul, 2006 at 12:41 pm

Is this guy for real - surely this must be a joke because I have never in my life heard of anyone being such a jerk (and that’s only part of the word)! Where does Darren get off with this? I think everyone that reads this story should send this link to everyone in their address books to make sure no one ever goes out with this creep again! I’ve heard it all now - and believe me I’ve heard a lot in 60 years but this truly takes the cake!

#87 Rick on 23, Jul, 2006 at 2:25 pm

In a world where women worked hard for equality and fairness, the same ideals should extend into the dating world as well. With that said, whoever is the one that does the asking is the one that should do the paying. Darren equated the date to a business arrangement. So, with that line of thinking, would he ask his clients to a business luncheon, then ask them to pay for it if it didn’t turn out fruitful for him? I highly doubt it. I am of course assuming that on JDate, he is the one that did that asking. The way he went about things was insane in my opinion. If he felt he had been slighted, then he should have waited to speak with her before interpreting her motivations. If she clearly indicated to him that she had used him then, I could understand his wanted to recoup his losses so to speak. With her offer to pay for her half of the dinner, and with his declining it, then he is the one at fault. If he had stated to her clearly that he will pay the entire bill contingent on another date, then it would have been her in a “breach of contract” so to speak. He did not clearly define his motivations, so therefore he should just chock it up to “bad business” if that’s the way he needs to look at things, and learn from it.

#88 ellen pesin on 23, Jul, 2006 at 2:30 pm

Darren is one of many cookaboos out in this world.Let’s just hope that for every Darren there is a few great normal men out there looking for a lady.

#89 Simone on 23, Jul, 2006 at 6:54 pm

COS TAN ZA.

#90 A. S. on 24, Jul, 2006 at 12:21 am

It’s for real. My wife worked with him at the SEC. He was fired for leaving pornographic material on a co-worker’s desk, my wife was one of the people that had to testify against him. He’s an arrogant, self centered jackass. The only reason I found out was because I was playing the .wav files and wifey walked in and said, “Holy Shit! That sounds like Darren” So I showed her the page, and she unloaded about him.

Very pathetic guy from what she remembers.

#91 justagirl on 24, Jul, 2006 at 12:38 am

I have been on internet dates and I have gone dutch. I do have to say when the guy lets me pay he is off my roster. The thing is, I have watched men focus on my drink the whole damn night. Why are you sipping it they say? Want another? What do you think they want? Obviously sex and so do I. Do they have to be dogs about it and zone in on your drink? Maybe us girls should bring a breathalizer and you can know when to make your move. They should pay, fuck em. They already turned me into a whore mine as well finish by paying and they ruined the chance of getting the action, if there is attraction, we both were looking for. Woman aren’t all “ladies” looking for a rich jewish boy to marry, they have needs too. I got off JDate and as a half jew, I gotta say Jdate men gives jews a bad name. I have never had a bad experience with anyone else except one, and it didn’t involve money and it was not on JDate. So what $50.00? Thats for the powder room boys we woman will pay you to watch Breakfast at Tiffany’s first, how about that? You jewish boys lost your manners and trust me, most of you are too neurotic to hang out with and enjoy the date. You mine as well just pay us for our time as you show off your money cause it’s boring! Lets also remember the time we spend trying to doll up for your shallow asses. Bring on the Irish, Italians, Spanish. Lovers and manners!

#92 anonymous on 24, Jul, 2006 at 2:21 am

this isnt an urban legend. there is an urban legend that is very similar to it though. ill post the link to it. http://www.snopes.com/love/revenge/paydate.asp

#93 Mark Baratelli on 24, Jul, 2006 at 2:23 am

What does this post have to do with pr?

#94 Auntie Gromit on 24, Jul, 2006 at 3:03 am

Darren Sherman - creepy. Guys who think even one iota of Darren’s behavior is justifiable - creepy. People who say things like, “I do, unfortunately, know some Jews who are exactly like this,” - also creepy.

This whole thread, start to finish, makes me sad for the world.

#95 Jax on 24, Jul, 2006 at 3:31 am

don’t ask a girl out if you don’t have any money. its called dating- you ask me out you buy me dinner. enough said…. she doesn’t owe you shit.

#96 Alan Van der Elk-roydson on 24, Jul, 2006 at 7:28 am

What if you don’t run up exactly 50% of the bill? Is going Dutch really fair? When I date I always have a small calculator with me (and not one of the those solar powered one because I found that the light is often insufficient). I write down each item (actually, I put it in my PDA/phone) and add-up individual totals. If we share a drink (like a bottle of wine) then we estimate each person’s consumption. This system also allows us to differentially tip as I have found most women I date think that 10% is too low, but I believe that it is correct for fair service. I also have a simple system for rating service that includes both quantitative measures (# of attention visits, time spent at table, frequency of walk-pasts, accuracy, etc. a stop watch with lap-time functionality is useful) and qualitative measures (appearance, friendliness, humor, etc). I won’t go into all the details here, but most factors can be rated from 1 to 5 and then I have an algebraic formula to calculate the actual tip. I am currently not with a life/breeding partner and would be interested in meeting like-minded girls (Alan Van der Elk-roydson - adver67@gmail.com)

#97 MidwestMama on 24, Jul, 2006 at 9:07 am

Glad I am married. And Susan is right: the lesbians I know are quite a bit more mentally stable than Darren is. Loser thy name is Darren!

#98 Phil on 24, Jul, 2006 at 10:21 am

Wuss behaviour at it’s finest. Wow. She WANTED to talk to him after her trip, and he blew it with impatience. Men, be men, not need whiners. Just wait a while. Take a lesson from Pink, who spells it out super clearly:

“Go away, give me a chance to miss you. Say goodbye it will make me want to kiss you…”

#99 cella on 24, Jul, 2006 at 11:15 am

The Daily News confirmed that Sherman was suspended from J-Date.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....7962c.html

I keep thinking back to my first day of law school when my Contracts professor offered up a number of hypotheticals (one being a man suing a woman because she refused a second date), and asked which ones were contracts and which weren’t. Most of us were adamant that the date scenario couldn’t be a contract, but we couldn’t say why.

No court would ever find in his favor, plain and simple. No one reasonably believes themselves to be entering a binding contract when promising “I’ll call you.” What’s more, if Darren never made the terms clear to Joanne (”I will pay for this dinner on the condition that you pay for the next one.”), there can be no mutal agreement and therefore, no contract. The “contract” could also fail for not setting the terms of repayment. Finally, no court would ever set the precedent that every man or woman could sue everytime they had a bad date. Please.

I say let the man sue her and let him get fined by the court for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

#100 DJ on 24, Jul, 2006 at 11:16 am

“When a man invites a woman to dinner, he is trying to have a good time. He is intertaining himself, both with a meal, and with company he hopes he will like. Whether or not he intends to score is just a matter of degree: The fact is, he wants to be entertained. (Or, of course, develop a lasting relationship.) He is taking a gamble (as of course is the woman — she is gambling her time, and her peace of mind.) It’s an arm’s length thing.

For that man to feel that the woman owes him ANYTHING (other than common courtesy one would expect of any person in any social situation) is placing waaay too much emphasis on the expenditure of money. That money means nothing. And to argue that it does is to make the evening transactional, which it isn’t.

By saying that she owe[s] him nothing, I didn’t mean to imply that she d[oesn’t] owe him courtesy. We all owe each other that, unless we establish we don’t deserve it.”

-Gene Weingarten

#101 Mike on 24, Jul, 2006 at 11:34 am

Guys: Never, ever buy a drink for a girl at a bar, unless you don’t care about the money you are pulling out of your pocket for the drink. It’s not a matter of being cheap. It’s the simple fact, that if you buy someone a drink, they are under no obligation to give you even the time of day. They didn’t ask for the drink. In truth, most of the time you are even buying the drink is because you don’t have a way “in”, or you did, and the conversation is dwindling, and it’s the only thing you can think of to hopefully save the conversation. Don’t bother, unless you really don’t care about the money.

I used to be the guy above, when I first turned 21, etc. But I now know that if you need to buy a drink in order to facilitate a conversation with another human being…there really isn’t much hope for a conversation in the first place. Be yourself, and walk up and talk…take your chances with that.

#102 Be objective on 24, Jul, 2006 at 12:48 pm

In the end the basic question is: Are you a nice/decent person? That’s all. All this talk about men should pay or buying a drink is a gamble or implies this or that. It doesn’t really matter the situation. In the end it what kind of person you are. I know plenty of people who regardless of how the date when or if there was a future would pay half the bill because they are nice and want to. I know an equal number of people who got out to see how many drink they can score and then walk away. Mind you these are both men and women. The question people have to ask what type a person they are? You can break ritual anytime you want or follow it. Breaking it or following it can at any time to financially good or bad for you. I’m not arguing that Darren is or isn’t entitled to the money. I’m just pointing out that everyone is arguing about norms/rituals/the game/signals/etc. But if someone offers a drink the “receiver” can A) say I can talk to this person and get a drink or b) just get a drink and walk away or C)say thanks but no thanks. Objectively if you’re not the give or the receiver you can easily say that the one buying is gambling yes. but if the receiver picks a) that person is person who is will to give it a chance. B) is a person who doesn’t care and just wants the drink and c) is probably fairly honest. In the end that tells you a lot about the person which is what the person buying the drink wanted to know.

#103 Wen-Wen Lam on 24, Jul, 2006 at 12:58 pm

That was possibly the best post I have ever read. I guess I won’t be using jdate anytime soon!!

#104 Kevin B on 24, Jul, 2006 at 1:06 pm

He probably expects to get laid if he gives a girl a backrub.

So THAT’S what Bush was trying to do with the German Chancellor!

#105 Antiriad on 24, Jul, 2006 at 1:42 pm

We never hear his side of the story. There are a lot of women around who are nothing more than amoral users. He was probably a nice guy who became increasingly paranoid after dealing with those types and now his expectations are entirely predicated based on past experiences. He would do well in considering finding a wife abroad, who tend to be more cultured and have better values than American women.

#106 guest on 24, Jul, 2006 at 2:03 pm

In response to the guest who wrote that women should split the bill if the date goes poorly and she doesn’t dig the dude, I wholeheartedly disagree. Any amount of money a man spends on a first date is simply an investment in the opportunity to impress a woman and test the waters; it does NOT buy a second date, or, for that matter, sex following dinner. The money only buys the man the woman’s undivided attention for the duration of the date; anything beyond that is won by his personality, charm, humor, intelligence, and sex appeal. If the performance was a bust, for god’s sake the poor woman should at least get the consilation prize of a free dinner.

#107 Jew for life on 24, Jul, 2006 at 2:24 pm

To: ANP
You’re correct that this is an urban legend, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in real life however. As to the whole “if you buy a drink you should get some conversation thing” I can sort of see your point but at worst if a woman accepts the drink and takes off after a minute she’s being slightly rude. It is a gamble. Really though, it’s common sense, if you’re not interested, don’t just take the drink and be like “thanks, see ya!” Just say “not interested” right off the bat.

#108 fragment on 24, Jul, 2006 at 2:40 pm

In all honesty i thin $50 is a small price to pay for all the time that little email exchange saved.

I mean really if you could have one date, then pay a flat $50 fee to find out that its never going to work its gonna save you both time and money in the long run. Without this little exchange it could have been months and several more dates before she found out what an asshole he was.

Hmm i smell a buisiness venture….

#109 Art Vandelay on 24, Jul, 2006 at 3:04 pm

Women who “trick” men into buying them drinks all night are no worse than the men who think a great way to meet women in bars is to say, “Can I buy you a drink?” If that’s the best you can do, if you have so little to say to a woman that you think you have to immediately buy 10 minutes of her time with a drink in order to obligate her to have a short conversation with you, you deserve what you get. I think buying a woman a drink the way that guy did earns him no more than a “Thanks.” And that’s if the woman is in a good mood.

What the guy who got upset doesn’t seem to understand is that women in bars never get free drinks, that the drinks they get from suckers like him are well earned by putting up with with the constant, unwanted, unsolicited attentions of my entire gender. Perhaps someone should inform him that for every “free” drink that woman got that night, she got her ass grabbed by three different disgusting, drunken men. Pretty sweet deal she’s got going there, huh?

#110 QuizLaw Legal Blog on 24, Jul, 2006 at 4:11 pm

JDate Stands for Jackass!

As most people recognize, the online dating world is full of perils. Misleading photos. People who insist that they love walks on the beach, when in fact they live in landlocked states. Married men looking for some swinging action, and…

#111 First time listener, first time caller... on 24, Jul, 2006 at 7:12 pm

My thoughts;

I think I can understand the fellow’s mentality, and it isn’t about money.

He probably liked the girl and felt frustrated when she didn’t reply. In a situation like that, a lot of people (colloquially, ’stalker’ types) would want to make repeated efforts to contact a person and, later, to ‘hurt’ them at least in a symbolic way (thus restoring their belief that life is fair)
The $50 is just a way of accomplishing that; an excuse to contact a girl who (he believed) wanted nothing to do with him and a way to have the ‘last laugh’
Remember, in the urban legend, which obviously inspired this, the girl paid without question, so, by refusing, not only had he failed to get (and, remember, I’m describing his perspective) ‘justice,’ but her repeated refusals have hurt him again

Now, as to my own opinion on the morality…
In this case, from what I’ve read, it seems that this particular case all stems from a mistake on Dennis’ part. He should have made more polite efforts to arrange a second date or, even, made enquiries about her whereabouts. (Although, it is interesting to note that if he had simply made repeated phonecalls over the following weeks without recieving an answer, that too would be considered ’stalking’ behaviour (although, in reality, quite practical since she was on a trip or whatever the case was.))
So, anyway, for the simple reason that Dennis’ jumped the gun, I think his actions, specifically, are wrong and he should really (for the sake of his own philosophical growth) acknowledge that he is wrong (perhaps to the girl, but definitely to himself. I, in my own experience, have found that it is a very healthy feeling to realise one own’s mistakes.)

As to the broader concept; well, I think it’s an awfully good idea. I don’t actually date, personally, but I imagine it would be awfully annoying having someone agree to a second date (especially if I like the person) and then discovering weeks or more later she lied and wanted never to see me again (indeed, when I first read the urban legend, I thought it was intended (true or false) as one of those ’sweet revenge’ type urban legends.
There is, quite simply, no need for such lies. If a woman doesn’t want to see a guy again, she should tell him to his face and save him from a great deal of false-hopes, etc.

As for the drink story; I think buying a woman a drink to start a conversation is simply a bad idea (precisely because there’s women like that in world) so the fellow’s actions were, if not morally wrong, at least unwise.
The girl’s actions, however, were astonishingly wrong. Regardless of wether or not she was obligated to chat with the fellow (and for how long, etc.) it was abundantly obvious that the fellow bought the drink to start a conversation and if she didn’t want to chat, she should have refused it.
I think, the mistake a lot of you people are making is thinking in terms of drink, therefor, conversation.
I think it’s more like conversation, therefor, drink. The fellow is basically saying “Ï would like to talk to you” and if she wants to say “That is good, let’s chat” then she should accept the drink.

#112 howard on 24, Jul, 2006 at 7:36 pm

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen !!! I read it in the daily news and came to the website. I am also o jdate and it is what it is, another way to meet people and connect. Hats off to the Joanne.. If she reads this Id love to buy her dinner at her favorite restaurant so she knows there are some quality guys out ther