Long story short re: my TiVo Tweet
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Here’s my TiVo story – can’t fit it in a Tweet.
Been a TiVo customer since 2003. Lifetime Subs on all three accounts. A year ago, I switched to an HD TiVo in the living room, since they were having a promo – they’d give me a year free before I had to buy another lifetime sub. (Remember, “lifetime” in TiVo’s world equals life of the box, not of you.) So I said fine, and at the end of the year, just bill me again for a lifetime sub. ($299.) Guy said it would, and made a note in my account.
Today I’m checking my AmEx, and notice two charges of like, $14.03, or some annoyingly small amount from TiVo. One each month, past two months. I call. After 20 minutes, I get a woman who tells me, “yeah, your free year expired, and we’re billing you monthly now.”
Actually, I asked to be billed for lifetime service when the free service expired, so please do that, and please refund me the two months of service since I’m paying for my lifetime service, which is $299 regardless of whether I did it two months ago or now. As such, you’ve sucked an extra $29 bucks out of me that I wouldn’t have had to pay for had you moved me to lifetime when I requested to be moved to lifetime, instead of monthly.”
“Sorry sir, we can’t do that, since you already used those two months.”
“Yes, but they should have been on a lifetime plan, which is the same price now vs. two months ago, so you’re getting an extra $29 out of me.”
“Yes sir, but I can’t adjust those charges since they happened already.”
“Isn’t that what an adjustment actually is?”
“Yes sir, but I can’t do it.”
“Who can?”
“Sorry, sir, we can’t make those adjustments. However, I’ve now billed you for $299 for the new lifetime subscription.”
End of story? TiVo has made an extra $29.00 from me.
Do I care about the $29.00? No. But it’s the fact that they did it and won’t refund it. I BOUGHT THE LIFETIME SERVICE ANYWAY. That’s a really, really scummy thing to do, don’t you agree?
Thoughts?
PS: Added: I should note that I love the TiVo service, and I love that I can download shows right to my computer. In my opinion, they blow any cable company’s DVR service away – which is why this bad customer service is even MORE frustrating!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Extremely scummy! I’m praying our 2004 model Tivo won’t give out because it kills me to think of paying for another lifetime subscription. However, I thought I had heard that Tivo no longer offered lifetime subs and had switched to an only-month-to-month model. Did that change?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Yes. And I personally would call back and insist to speak to a manager if I got the same answer. But I waste my time like that. I get very upset when big companies screw things up and I don’t get satisfactory answers. Probably more upset than I should…but there it is.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
TIVO does it again ! Well I do not see that you had asked for her superior and yes indeed she could have refunded the money. Most likely she did not know how? Was she even in this country??
Why did she just not decrease the amount by $29.00 did you try that approach?
we all live and learn~
December 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Peter- you are dead on. TiVo is making a huge CRM mistake- and you are telling the world.
It’s the same twisted logic that Sprint had- sign up for a new contract for 2 years or pay $200 termination fee just to make a change on the account.
http://www.thenextwave.biz/tnw/?p=428
Even if you are offering to pay more- they weren’t interested until it was too late.
TiVo is an amazing service, but, with increased competition from cable providers, they should be doing their utmost to keep current customers happy.
I’m still not sure how they rationalize their “lifetime” of the box strategy.
Do they really think that makes their customers love them?
Seeing as they have a small marketing budget- it’s interactions like this that can really hurt the company more than the $28 they just saved themselves.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Tom Rogers is the CEO of Tivo. Their corporate headquarters # is (408) 519-9100 (NY office is (212) 520-1860). Call the corporate headquarters, ask to speak to Tom. When they ask why you’d like to speak to him, tell them it’s about extremely poor customer service you received. If they’re like AT&T was when they screwed up my cell phone account, they’ll transfer you to the person who deals with unhappy customers. That person will be able to credit the funds.
I won’t go into the long story of my troubles with AT&T (before they were bought out), but all I can say is, I feel your pain.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Ah, the wonderful world of Customer Service. I would take that one all the way up the food chain… you’d be doing them a favour ultimately.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I would be willing to bet good money your problem could be solved by some more phone calls (although I suspect this post will solve the problem for you). I’ve yet to encounter a company that I couldn’t get corrective action from, the issue is whether you’re willing to spend the time to get it done or not. For $30, I suspect you’re not, and I don’t blame you.
But, the next time you’re on the phone, absolutely ask for a supervisor. And again, if needed. Take names and extension numbers, times, etc.
I also find doing all this after a glass or two of wine is helpful since the trick of all telephone customer service is to just outlast you. They count on you eventually being so bothered that you’ll get upset and hang up. Stay calm and they’re forced to deal with you.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
There is always someone who can authorize those adjustments. Always. That is why they have supervisors. If you even have an idea of the name of the guy who set up the HD account and told you it would automatically happen, that is normally enough to get them to agree. Knowledge is power, and using a person’s name, and genuinely knowing that this occurred comes across in the conversation. It’s like the teacher calling a bad student at recess by name. People freeze. Deer in the headlights. This is not to say that some people aren’t immune to this. People I’ve known who work in collections are the best example of those who are immune. Nothing phases those people. I’d give a call back when it’s convenient for you and ask for the supervisor. It’s worth the $29.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
I think at that point I would have asked to speak to a manager. That’s no way to treat someone who is a lifetime customer and it’s certainly not going to buy them any customer service points in my book. What’s sad is that this isn’t the first time I’ve heard of something like this happening. Why is it that certain companies think they can get away with treating customers like this?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
I wish I can say I am shocked / outraged / ect. but …
These days every service provided from cable to health insurance wants to squeeze the consumer out of a few extra dollars. The only thing we can do is call them on it, and I am thankful you did so with Tivo here. Hopefully there will be a backlash and they’ll change course.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I had an awful experience with TIVO after calling to be proactive regarding a TIVO HD unit I had purchased (and returned) last DEC.
Long story short, Customer service rep CANCELED my entire TiVo Account (had/have 2 Series Two units) rather than just the new HD one I had setup!
He said he would go ahead and just cancel my entire account, even though I was saying over and over that I did not want to cancel the account that I still have two other Tivos and wanted to keep my service. He disagreed with me, insisted that I shouldn’t have an account and that he was canceling it at that very moment.
Which is when I went into a tail spin about how his company (Tivo) spends serious money to gain customers and its a shame that he is flushing them down the toilet.
After that I immediately called Tivo Corp. where they apologized (naturally), re-instated my account (duh!), and were going to track down the idiot rep.
I suggest you call corp as well
December 29th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Someone should call TIVO and let them know that they screwed Peter Shankman out of $29. Then, they should explain that as one of the pre-eminent social media personalities of our time, this was a very, very bad PR move. Then, TIVO should give you free service for life (yours, not the boxes) and a big apology.
I have so many stories just like yours with phone and cable companies. I hope they see the error of their ways!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Hmm I wonder if they even understand customer retentions. Bet they do not even know what social networking or something like twitter can do…Bad news travels like wildfire!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I hope that $29 was worth it to Tivo.
It sounds like their customer service reps aren’t empowered to use basic respect to keep a lifetime customer happy. If that’s the case, where else are they not taking care of the customer?
While they do have much of the market sewn up, there are a lot of us out there who have yet to step on the Tivo bandwagon. If and when I do, I’ll be sure to look for other options.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I agree. This is the bureaucratic mind at work.
I’d try to go up the chain and speak with a manager, and their manager, and continue until you find someone who can make it happen. My wife is good at this kind of thing. She’s persistent and it usually pays off.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:14 am
You could also call your credit card company and dispute the 2 months worth of charges…
December 29th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Another approach would be to dispute the charge with your credit card company. They will immediately deduct the charges from your bill, and it will then be up to TIVO to prove the charges. I have an original TIVO that is 9 years old with a lifetime subscription, and am thrilled that it hasn’t conked out!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Peter –
I agree! Why is it that so many companies, including media & communications, are allowed to gouge customers with these types of up charges? So many businesses simply do not stand behind their word any more. It is only $29 for you, but then multiply this by how many other people in the same helpless situation? I hope the power of social media only continues to grow to tame these types of business beasts!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Totally scummy, Peter. Agreed. I can’t stand when the customer stands by the company (three lifetime subscriptions!?!) but the company doesn’t return the favor. Bad news. I hope someone in Tivoland is listening…
December 29th, 2008 at 11:33 am
I’m sorry you had to experience that. I agree that you should contact Tivo’s corporate office and explain what happened. I hope that they don’t want us to go #motrin on them. That wouldn’t be good for Tivo at all.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I echo the sentiments above. Does Tivo NOT understand what they are doing? Seriously – this experience that you are going through would make me think twice before EVER doing business with them. Customer retention is vital in today’s industry as is word of mouth. They should credit that $29 and then some!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I was JUST contemplating signing up for Tivo, and this has given me pause.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I always loved the statement, “Never take a ‘no’ from someone who was never empowered to give a ‘yes’ in the first place.”
That said – I’m sure you don’t want to waste a bunch of time over $30… I hope to hear that they’ve gotten word of your displeasure and that they redeem themselves – guess I won’t jump on the TiVo bandwagon until then!
V-
December 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I def suggest you go to corp. I had a similar situation with a delivery company (leaving the name out) a few years back. I actually sent an email to the rep and her supervisor, several other reps that I talked to during the complaint process for the error they made….and I just so happened to research who the pres of the company was and included the President on the email to which I received a call back from the corp office with in 1 hour! Worked like a charm! They said the president of the company received my email and personally wanted to apologize for the inconvenience and that they are going to review their customer service policies for the future. I was refunded the entire amount of the shipment! This was a well over $300 mistake… I am sure TIVO will realize their mistake sooner or later!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am
It amazes me on a daily basis the poor customer service that companies give. This would have cost them nothing…not even the $29. But instead, the $29 they kept from you is costing them much more in bad publicity. In the era of fast communications, twitter, facebook, etc…it’s too easy for something like this to spread. Companies don’t realize the impact that one person can have…especially when it’s someone like you who has a huge following. I wonder if TIVO’s PR people or agency are reading this?
December 29th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I hope by the time I write this that TiVo has already found out about this posting and made the proper adjustments in your favor.
I do agree that you should call back and insist to speak to a manager. It’s not the money, but the priniciple of the issue.
Why do big businesses find it acceptable just to eat our money up.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Customer Relations “Stuck on Stupid”…
I’ve said it before and said it before and said it before: in an era of social media, when recommendations and condemnations flash back and forth almost instantaneously, there is nothing more important to a company’s continued success than good……
December 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Having been in the customer service field for 20+ years, her words simple translate to, ‘I’m too lazy to do what you’re asking and I don’t care because I’ll get a paycheck no matter how much I stink at my job.’ She could have helped you, should have helped you. How very dumb, in this economy and with the social technology that exists, to treat your customers in such a way. It’s letter writing time and you may even want to include a print out of this post, and the comments that follow, so the company can see just how much power consumers have these days.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Oh, this has GOT to be every company’s nightmare! Do something stupid to someone who can get the word out! I bet by now the higher-ups are already hearing that TIVO has been tweeted!
Let’s start a pool — how many hours/minutes until they call you with full apology/amends? Somebody put me down for three hours and twenty minutes. One closest without going over wins! I’ll tweet that!
December 29th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Scummy is a good word for that kind of customer service.
I bought a Tivo in 2003 and took it on a month to month plan based on the assumption that if they were that good, some major media/telecom/Internet company would buy them up and ruin it, or, if they weren’t very good, TWC would introduce something better at a competitive price point for me. TWC did and I abandoned Tivo.
So, I have still have that Tivo box (40G) and remote taking up space in my closet. If anybody want’s it, just email me.
BTW, I remember noting when I read the ToA that “lifetime” refers to the health of the remote, where Tivo has all of its proprietary code. The box is (or was) a low-cost, open-source, Linux system optimized for TV.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Hey Peter. The easiest thing to do is start a dispute of the charges with the credit card company. This way, you don’t have to pay the disputed amount right away and TIVO will have to explain themselves to the CC company. If they don’t, charges go away – POOF!
December 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Peter,
Personally, I wouldn’t pay for a lifetime subscription to anything that depended on a hard drive; the “lifetime” is too unpredictable. (Then again, I’ve upgraded the hard drives in both my TiVo Series 2 units already, so I’d be out of warranty regardless.) That said, “good on you” (as they say elsewhere) for telling your story publicly. {ProfJonathan}
December 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I sent this link to their investor relations.
Their exec team doesn’t have their e-mails listed.
This is an example of a $30 blunder costing the company millions in bad press.
Comcast got hit bad by Bob Garfield of Advertising Age- he set up a site http://www.comcastmustdie.com
TiVo has a “community” – but, they’ve never really figured out how to do total engagement. Reality- they are still stuck like Apple in a way- can’t figure out if they are a hardware company or a software company.
Reality: there is a lot more money in software.
I guess that by tomorrow- you’ll have a refund.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Peter,
Isn’t it great what happens when you complain about corporate failure? What a great list of seriously good ideas! Let us know what you do, if anything,
Steve
December 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Vonage has done the same thing to me! I loved the service but had to disconnect when my business was closed. I was going to reopen the account after a move but they sucked money from my wallet and now not only will I never use them again, I tell everyone I know not to use them. TiVo…I’ll never use them now either. There are other ways to see your programs!
December 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Speaking of which – I notice that Comcast is teaming up with TiVo (again!) to offer the TiVo HD on a per month rental basis. Anyone know (I’m doubting it) if this offer supports Netflix streaming to the Comcast/TiVo beast? Given the state of customer service these days, I don’t even want to bother asking this question by calling Comcast’s 800#. They *might* know the answer, but then again… seems doubtful.
Horrible customer service is the norm folks – companies would rather fail while employing cheap incompetents than to hire those who want to make a difference and actually DO it on a day-to-day basis.
Thanks in advance for any insights on the Comcast/TiVo/Netflix front…
Cheers,
Dan
December 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Yes, three hours — I believe I called it correctly.
Cyn
December 29th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Why do Julia Robert’s words from Pretty Woman “Big Mistake, BIG” keep ringing in my ears? Something tells me if Peter gets over 36 comments in less than a few minutes TIVO will come calling by morning. Don’t they have a Twitter account?
Please keep us posted, Peter…You’re time is surely worth more than hassling on the phone with more misguided reps who can’t see the forest for the trees, but something tells me, you won’t have to…
December 30th, 2008 at 7:21 am
All of the above are dead on, if you dont get anywhere dispute the charges with AMEX, just because a company has you cc# on file doesn’t mean they can charge whatever/whenever. You didn’t authorize those transactions plain and simple. good luck!!
December 30th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Thats ridiculous with Tivo. I had an awful experience with Spirit Airlines today and promised them (after a letter and 2 phone calls) if they didnt resolve my issue, I would stop being a customer and spread the word on the internet. Well, I cancelled my freespirt acct this am, and now I am fulfilling the second part of my promise. AVOID SPIRIT AIR, not worth it!
December 30th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I do not understand how companies do not empower their employees to recognize and do something about obvious stupidity in their systems when it is brought to their attention. I have 3 tivos and love them – thankfully I have not had to deal with their customer service. As content moves online and other service providers like comcast and directTV offer similar boxes – tivo will need to step it up to convince people why they should stay with tivo. They do have a better interface but better does not always win out.
December 30th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
One more reason customer service needs to report through PR or corporate communications, where it’s viewed as a first line of relationship-building instead of a simple cost-center.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Why can’t you have them take the 29 dollars off of the 299 dollar lifetime price. They should do that. Or just add 2 months extra after you lifetime which means anyone can use it after you have passed away for 2 months. lol
January 18th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
That’s awesome that Tivo cares enough to see what people are saying about their service. I wish more companies did this!!!
I had two similar experience with Cingular before they had their merger and be AT&T, which caused me to switch carriers. If blogging was as common back then I might still be a customer with them.
February 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
I am so tired of “the inabiity to go back in time to refund” when they are so obviously wrong AND when it is so easy to simply charge you less for the service you so clearly wanted all along. Why is the customer always right, except when WE are the customer?