Never confuse “Being a nice guy” for “Weakness”

PETER SHANKMAN

POSTED ON March 1st, 2010

84 COMMENTS

Whenever I talk to other CEOs or other people in industry who have “made it big,” one of the things I always ask is if they’re thought of as a “nice guy” – by their friends, employees, competitors, clients, etc.

The CEOs usually launch into a litany of reasons why they’re “nice guys.” They donate to charities, they sit on the boards of non-profits, they help raise awareness of critical issues, and so on. But in answering my question like that, they’re avoiding my question. In the end, if I press them, some of them say that no, people don’t think they’re “nice guys.” Instead, the words that usually come up are “feared,” “assh***,” and the like.

Their reasoning? They believe that if they’re seen as a nice guy, that’s a sign of weakness, which will negatively impact them, their company, their bottom line.

They have a point – but only partially.

The problem isn’t them – it’s society. We’re conditioned to believe since birth, that “nice guys finish last.” “Be harder, play stronger, take no prisoners!” is the attitude instilled into many of us at birth.

And to a degree, that’s useful advice. If a lion in the wild is “nice,” she’ll be killed. If she’s mean and aggressive, she’ll kill, and provide food for her, and for her family.

And you see that in countless books – telling us to think like lions, teaching us how to hunt our prey, attack the weaker, never show any weakness.

I can haz you as snack?

But there’s one fundamental flaw with that logic. We’re being told that we should think like animals, animals that don’t have the capacity to reason.

That’s what differentiates us from the animals. We can reason. And reasoning can help us to be even more successful.

HARO, by the very nature of what it is, started out as a platform to help people. It started out on Facebook, where I would forward requests from my friends in media, to my friends in PR. That’s it. I did it to be a nice guy, sure. But there was more – I reasoned (and quite logically) that if I was thought of as that conduit, both reporters and sources would want to use me for that – thereby putting me right smack in the middle on the flow of information.

And it worked.

At the end of the day, being “a nice guy,” when well thought out, can propel you into the stratosphere of success, and you don’t have to be “the assh***” to get there.

I always take the first meeting, I always answer the first email. I like to help people. I like to connect people. It’s my nature. It’s in my DNA. It’s not in my DNA to tell people to go F themselves. It’s just not who I am.

Therein lies a problem, though. To some people, my “nice guy” mentality projects weakness. It projects a “I can walk all over him, he’s too nice to fight back” train of thought.

I can see how – If you grow up with the mantra of “the weak are eliminated,” then you surround yourself with people who only have one goal: them. They’ll do anything in their power to win, anything to stop everyone else. So yeah, if you grow up with that, or subscribe to that, of course you’re going to see my “nice guy” mentality as “weakness.”

The problem though, is that if you think along those lines about me, you’re 100% wrong. And that’s a mistake that can kill you.

To a smart person, the chasm between “nice guy” and “weakness” is like the difference between Albert Einstein and Tila Tequila. One in no way is the other.

I’m a nice guy. But I’m the furthest thing from weak you’ll ever see.

At the end of the day, the smart “nice guys” tend to have more “lion traits” than the ones who try and emulate the lion. Why? Because we have to. There’s always someone trying to take advantage of us.

Fact is, I am a nice guy. Want some help? Email me – if I can, I’m happy to. Nicole Jordan wrote a spectacular piece the other day about people who ask to “pick your brain,” and how to deal with them. She’s right. Don’t give it away for free. But if I can offer a piece of advice, I’m the first one to help if you ask.

But – never, ever confuse that for weakness.

Because what you don’t see, what I rarely have to bring out because I am nice, is my teeth. I have sharper teeth than you. “Nice guys” usually do. My fangs can cut through you like a hot knife through butter, and if provoked to that point, I won’t even try to staunch your bleeding. The difference between me and the “take no prisoners” guys, however, is that to me, my fangs are a last resort, not a first line of fight.

And any last resort is the one with the most power behind it. It’s a last resort. That’s the point.

If I’m threatened, if I feel like I’m being taken advantage of, or if I feel like someone is trying to use my “nice guy” attitude to take what is mine, I’ll come down on you so hard, you’ll think you just got struck by a freight liner. Why? Because you didn’t expect it. You assumed “Oh, he’s nice, he won’t try and fight.” You’re wrong.

Remember – I’m the kid that got made fun of growing up for simply being Jewish and fat. And after a while, all that rage I felt built up, and exited my body one day in a dead-on, 100% accurate punch to the left eye socket of a junior high school bully. And the entire school learned that day that they’d confused “nice” with “weak.” And I guarantee you, they never made that mistake again.

I have the sharpest team of lawyers, advisors, and counsel that you never, ever want to meet. And the funny thing, is that most successful “nice guys” I know do too. Why don’t you know it? Because we rarely have to bring them out. We run our lives in such a way, that they rarely have to show their faces.

Until they do. And by that time, well, chances are, it’s way too late for you to do anything about it. You had your chance. You underestimated. And it’s a hard lesson to learn.

You know, it’s funny – one of the greatest military strategy books EVER, is called The Art of War, by Sun Tzu. But what’s ironic, is that the reason Sun Tzu was such a great military strategist was because he encouraged never fighting unless absolutely necessary. Rather, he chose every other method first:

Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.

I’m never going to stop being nice. It’s who I am. Thank my parents. I enjoy living my life this way, I believe it’s karmically good, and I encourage you to try it, as well – But don’t ever, not even for a second, confuse my niceness with weakness. It will cost you. Severely.

I’d like your thoughts on this, as always. Post away below.

http://handyhomeownergirl.com Lindsay Griffiths

Peter – love love LOVE this post. I’m a “nice guy” too, and I have always wondered if being more cutthroat would have made me more successful. I finally decided that I’d rather be able to put my head peaceably on my pillow at night than change who I am. But you’re a perfect example of how a nice guy can also by very successful, and that’s a great inspiration.

I’m also with you about the fangs – I’m a very, very patient forgiving person. But there’s a line, and if you cross it…whoa, watch out. So glad that you’re talking about this!

Oh, and I just signed up to be at Social Fresh in Portland, so hopefully I will finally get the chance to meet you in person!
Amanda Changuris

I’ve never been very good at showing my teeth, often accused of being “too nice” — heck, my nickname in high school was “doormat” — but this really resonates with me. It’s okay to come down hard on those who would take advantage of my willingness to help (assuming they’ve earned my scorn). On the other hand, I can relax in the knowledge that I won’t have to do it often. Thanks, Peter!
http://www.un-marketing.com/blog/ Scott Stratten

“Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate”

Gave me chills man. Love it.

I’ve never bought into the asshole gets the win style biz, but I agree, don’t mess around with nice folks, they’ll F you up
Don

Peter:

Great post, and I love HARO, but don’t you think you ought to heed your own advice? I’m referring to the following Tweets from you on Feb. 23:

Wouldn’t u think that if u wanted to “be the next Peter Shankman” you’d just use HARO, and not some punk-ass competitor? #justsayin’ :)

Match that, punkass competitor! RT @TinaMBean: @skydiver Hey Peter, just got a VM 4 a $1k order from my HARO email! Now that’s ROI!

Justsayin.
http://www.aleuromedia.com @KSL

Excellent. Continue to be an example for all who are willing and capable of learning.
http://www.akmasters.com Alexandra Masters

Great post. I think it’s a rarity to be a true nice guy today. Keep up the great posts!
http://www.remarxmedia.com Cara Stewart

Peter, after reading this post, I don’t know whether to cry, cheer or break something. You’re right on. I’m nice. And female. Which translates into “she must be weak.” Oh, really? Like you, I always take the first call, meet for that cup of coffee and share a piece of advice that could prove useful to someone. I participate in my community. I trust employees, clients, friends and relationships. Until I no longer do because they’ve proven that they’ve crossed that line; they confuse nice with weak and take advantage or worse. Hell hath no fury like an only child Italian/German Scorpio female scorned. I was raised by immigrant grandparents who taught me to do the right thing, be grateful and help everyone. I was raised to believe that you gave until it hurt because you loved (clients, family, your neighbors…). That’s in my DNA. But in the old country, those who didn’t conform to this belief were, well, dealt with… differently. I also was taught that, and that’s also in my DNA. Here’s to the nice guys (and girls), Peter!
http://www.sweetharper.com/ Tracy @ Sweet Harper

Thanks for the article! I am starting a small biz (just a couple of months in) and still finding my path-so it was very helpful. I think this is a great article for women too. So often, I struggle with the question “am I being too nice?” This article reinforces why I should do business as myself, and not with a “hardass” front just to protect myself.
Tracy
Rachel

GREAT post. Ran across from Tom Martin’s re-tweet….
I love the fang reference too – Nice guy fangs are probably sharper than others because nice guys don’t use their fangs as much.
I grew up with a strong religious background and being nice was the only way to learn, work and live. There are plenty of people in my life who live the nice guy life and are extremely successful, but I do know a few people I WILL pass this blog post along to. Thanks!
http://terripease.com Terri Pease, Ph.D.

What you’re describing is that you are a person who knows, VERY CLEARLY, what his bottom line is. This is the essence of self-confidence. You don’t have to make threats or frighten people when you are certain of what is OK with you and what is not. Bullies (like your jr. high classmate) are never sure of themselves, and so have to constantly reassure THEMSELVES by intimidating others.

You live the example of self-confidence, Peter, and it’s a joy to observe.
http://www.bizcoachdeb.com Deb Kolaras

This was such a great read, thank you. I’m guilty of being kind, giving, helpful, etc., and sometimes it can be confused for “patsy” and “sucker.” I relish having a generous heart and even though this is how I conduct my life and my business, it in no way entitles people to take advantage of me or those I am aligned with. Once I sniff that kind of agenda out, I become a little more “alpha” and a lot more reserved. True success does not come by climbing on people’s backs to arrive at your goal, but rather helping them arrive at theirs.
http://getstrong.tv Spencer Morris

Live life however you want, there’s no BEST way, roll with the punches.
http://www.kelandpartners.com Liz Bradley

Thanks Peter–this is a great post! I think some of the best leaders are those who dont lose their cool. (Ex. Obama) When I see a leader freak out and yell at someone I immediately lose respect for them. In the past I have worked for people who have led by fear. In my experience that works up to a point, as long as the people you are leading have low self esteem, but once they realize they dont have to take it they will leave and work for someone nicer. For what its worth, I think you are a great leader!
Dan G

Great post!

The thing that many of the aggressive, must-win-at-all-costs folks don’t realize is that one thing that it costs *every time* is their reputation. Such a person must negotiate allies *every time* for every fight because everyone knows that they might be attacked by this person the next day… especially when having to divide the spoils of conquest.

Nice guys, by contrast, can negotiate… but when push comes to shove, people leap to their aid. Why? Part of it is favors owed… and most nice guys have many more favors owed them than owed. But more importantly is the reputation: if Dan is upset, there must be something to be upset about because Dan never gets this upset about anyone. As you say, you never, ever want to push a nice guy that far because there will be absolutely no mercy for those who do.
http://TheCanineClub.net/ Greg Gibbs

As a fellow nice guy – well said! As a dog trainer, the word that comes to mind is discipline, more in terms of setting (and enforcing) limits. But also using the right tool for the right job and having a progression of actions. The wide variances in definitions or interpretations is a significant issue as well. I think of discipline as I first mentioned above, but too many people equate it with punishment (in common terms, not operant conditioning). Just like nice person weakness.

My only quibble, and it’s just that, is that humans are not the only animals with reasoning skills. However, I understand what you’re trying to say. If I had a better way for you to make your point, I’d tell you, but you’re a much, much better writer than I.

Keep up the great work, and I’m lovin’ them tweets! – g^2
http://www.trinitylifestyle.com Jose Gomez

Peter, this is excellent!!!
http://www.merchant911.org @Merchant911

Peter,

You make excellent points in a great post.

I suspect that you didn’t mean it as more than a series of facts – “Don’t F@#$ with me or I’ll bite” IMHO, though, it almost sounded like a warning to someone in particular.

In any event, I know what you’re saying. I’ve spent hundreds (no, thousands – it’s been over 9 years now) of hours helping my members at no cost to them. Last week I sent the first mailing in three years and actually had two members accuse me of spam.

It took some self control but I didn’t bite.
http://www.nicoleprexec.com NicolePRExec

Shankman,

I love your honesty and reason for posting this. And I formally say thank you to your parents! It’s refreshing to see someone lay this topic out and note that you prefer to live life the way we were all intended to live it!

Karma is a mother! You have the right to do anything, but you should always do the right thing.

As usual – love your bluntness. Keep ‘em coming!

-Nicole
Dan G

To Terri’s comment about self-confidence, I had thought of this movie review as I read the post:

“This movie was beautifully written in a style that was less about the fact that the main character could have taken every man in the film, but the fact that he didn’t have to. … The movie’s defining line is, “Run away rather than hurt, hurt rather than mame [sic.], mame [sic.] rather than kill”

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068823/combined
http://www.cc-chapman.com C.C. Chapman

Thank you once again for a dead on post!

I can relate to a ton of this except in my case it was a metal lunch box swung into another kids face that was my little moment.
http://braddyg.com Brad

This is spot on. I’ve always been a nice guy, and it may appear that I let a lot of little slights or injustices go. More accurately, though, I know what’s important to me and what’s not. If you cross that line, you’ll be made acutely aware of how vicious I can be. Good thing is that I prefer to surround myself with people who don’t attempt to cross that line – personally and professionally.

As a “nice guy” in business, you can’t always avoid the “assh***s”, but I’ve left an employer who tried to take advantage before and never looked back. Every chance I have, I make sure that anyone who will listen hears about their bad business practices and how they treat their employees. Because to so many of us, it’s not just about the bottom line.
http://www.Cloud10Massage.com Lorine

I can be your best friend or worst enemy. Really the choice is yours.

This is how I always look at it in life. Generally, I go out of my way to help other people. I follow up with my massage clients providing them the answers and info I told them I would. I’m kind and thoughtful and ready to jump in.

But once you cross me, I too can show my very sharp teeth.

Nice post.
http://alantakushi.com Alan Takushi

I can relate to everything except for the “you don’t want to see my fangs” aspect. I love helping people but unfortunately, there are people who take advantage of my so called niceness. However, I’m gaining my confidence slowly but surely and working on becoming strong, disciplined and a “can’t walk over me type of guy.” Yet, I will still remain humble and that always helpful person. Thanks for a great post. It gave me a lot to think about.
http://www.marcidiehl.com Marci Diehl

I think Cara Stewart described my own experience best in how I was raised (except for the immigrant grandparents). I loved this post, Peter. Does it have any connection to the “No. You Can’t Pick My Brain” article by Nicole Jordan that you posted on Facebook today? Because that almost made me cry, it hit home so much. Like you, I hate to be underestimated or undervalued. I’ve been working as a writer for 30 years, and as a consultant for 14. People love me, they love working with me. But when a line is crossed (very rarely), the ice and steel come out. Titanium fangs, that’s me.

“My fangs can cut through you like a hot knife through butter, and if provoked to that point, I won’t even try to staunch your bleeding.”

– Being a writer, I know exactly what that means. The power of thought and words can be lethal. Thanks for reminding me.
http://www.ironmountainmovement.com Keri Cawthorne

Great post Peter, love “my fangs are a last resort, not a first line of fight.” , so true. Thanks for the link to Nicole Jordan’s article, a great read as well.
http://www.sandhillcomms.com Mary McEvoy Carroll

There’s a reason why you named your cat Karma – you embody the truth that good things emerge from ‘nice’ behavior. Of course a successful nice guy also needs well-sharpened teeth, an eye for a good weapon and the ability to let it all explode if the situation warrants it. The appeal and the strength of niceness lies in the fact that it is an informed choice. I found in the days when I managed 20 international agencies as a corporate PR peep that they worked twice as hard and as effectively when I treated them with respect and appreciation. Of course, those that didn’t were out quicker than they could think of the next excuse. Great post!
Angela Daffron

This is a wonderful post! All very true! Too many people believe you cannot be nice and lead at the same time, but it really comes down to the Golden Rule! I have always found that employees work harder if they feel connected to you (i.e. I am nice to them rather than making them fear me)!

HARO is a great example!
http://www.dancingloud.com Nanci Armstrong

As a new business owner without power or money (or lawyers or other fancy protections;), I have been given lots of bad advice by seemingly well-intentioned people. The advice is often f*** others before they f*** you. Fortunately, I come from people who taught me better than that, and you, Peter, are an inspiration.

I want to be a millionaire, but not at the cost of my soul, my character, or my personality.

Thanks for the great advice and reminder, though I need a little more lion and a little less doormat . . . working on the firm boundaries. Seems like it’s actually easier to be cynical, and the way of the warrior is to keep love for your fellow humans (including really bad business people) alive without letting them get in your way. Point taken.
http://srcasm.com Jesse Middleton

Peter,
I finished reading a book called Leadership and Self-Deception by the Arbinger Institute. It opened my eyes more than anything else I’ve read in years and I highly recommend it to everyone. It explains that while you should always treat others as human beings and never as objects it doesn’t mean that being nice (and doing the right thing) lead you to also be weak. In fact there are plenty of times to come down hard on someone while still treating them as you would want to be treated.

Think of it this way — If you screwed up, wouldn’t you want to be told you did? If you screwed up big time, wouldn’t you want to have someone come down hard and make sure you understood the ramifications? Of course you would and that’s why it’s also okay to treat others this way (if needed) as long as it’s humane. That’s the irony of humans, we usually don’t treat others very humanely.

I know that most would consider me somewhere between a “nice guy” and an a**hole. I think that there’s a very happy balance there. I’m willing to help you out in any way that I can but I’m also very straight forward and brutally open which can come off as more of an a** than helpful.

Cheers,
Jesse
Eric

So true. I just read a really good book that hits on this area, it’s all about helping others and connecting other people, just like what you do daily Peter. If you havent’ read The Go-Giver: A Little Story About a Powerful Business Idea
then you should really check it out.
Joe

Yes, agree, very good advice, but being tough vs. being a bully can be a very fine line.

Here’s a great example a not-so-nice guy bullying the little guy:
http://techdirt.com/articles/2.....8328.shtml
http://www.walshpr.com Greg Walsh

great post Peter. Agree completely with your “nice seen as weakness”. Little unsure about the team of lawyers references. But I know what you are talkign about.
It’s too bad there has to be so many fangs in the world at all. Unfortunately we all need to have them sometimes. Kill em with kindness.
http://www.prtini.com Heather Whailng

Peter,

Having read some of the not-so-nice things being written recently, I’m proud (can I be proud? I don’t know you “in real life” — but you get my point) of you for writing this and taking a stand. As a new business owner, I’m quickly learning that people will push and push and push — but at some point, you have to push back. Stand up for yourself. Do what you know is right, even if it goes against your typical “nice guy” disposition. This post is spot-on, and you continue to be a role model for entrepreneurs — and not just because you took a good idea and figured out how to make money from it. But, because it appears that you do business the “right” way. Good for you.

Heather
@prTini
Mysty

Wow, just the post I have been looking for – you’ve described me to a “T”. And right now I’m contending with a lion in my office and I just sit back, and as a last resort I “bring out my fangs.” Thus far it has served me well. I keep hearing that this office mate is “under a lot of pressure” and I say, sorry, it’s not excuse to treat people like they are less than human and be nasty. You can be nice and get people to work for you – I’ve been doing it for years. My parents taught me this value and showed me this while running a successful business for 30 years before they decided to retire on their own terms.

Thank you for saying it so well. I am forwarding on to other office mates that I think will appreciate reading your thoughts. Thanks for the post – you made my Monday.
http://kickingsand.com Nicole Jordan

Peter, Such a great article. Niceness and willingness to help is not a weakness. It’s an under-appreciated strength.

As I’ve been reading the PYB post comments a sentence came to me that I’m going to tout for a long time: When you don’t want something from me is when I WANT to help you. (…proactive nice?)

People need to understand that building a relationship with me (and vice versa) will pay off more in the long run, including the advice I give you once I know you’re not just “in it for you.” No one likes a mooch. No one.
http://www.reflux.org Beth (“Queen of Barf”)

I proactively enforce civility in a non-threatening way – and give a tiny glimpse of my fangs. If somebody greets me at the door Monday morning with a problem, I respond, “My weekend was great, how was yours?” If employees are spatting, I tell them that I can bring a time-out chair from home if they are going to act like children. If an employee is snotty, I pull my glasses down on my nose, give them “the look” and just walk away.

Later, I ask the people I’ve snarled at if there is anything we need to talk about. Creating open communication while insisting on civility works for me. Sometimes I learn that somebody else in the company was behaving badly and the attitude is rippling outward.

I also pays to let people know about some of your lion escapades. (In my case, they are mama tiger stories.) My co-workers all know I was once charged with kidnapping because I took an abused child to a shelter. The mom who pressed charges ended up being VERY sorry she messed with me. And the teen who raped my daughter’s friend inside the high school ended up on the AP Wire service as did the school principal who blew it off.

I have had positions over the years when I had little control over employees, but I still managed to come up with creative ways of changing their behavior. And believe me, you SO do not want me to get creative on you. I take my time and I come up with a punishment that is truly fitting of the crime.

Amazing essay, Peter! I wish your attorney would let you tell us what provoked this. I’m sure whoever pissed you off is getting exactly what they deserve. Be sure to tell us after the dust settles.
Barbara

If you run for President, I will vote for you!
http://midliferoadtripshow.com sandra mckenna

Kind is the new black and you wear it well Peter.
http://www.runnersinnyc.com/main Scott Iwata

I don’t comment on your blog as most of the time people have said what I was thinking. I loved this piece mainly because I’ve always been called a nice guy, like you I’ve encountered people along the way who’ve tried to take advantage of my niceness, etc. I’ve thought about what it means to be an A**hole and quite frankly I would hate that even more. The fact is being nice is not being weak and it’s great to see someone say what I’ve been thinking about this. I believe a culture of nice people can make corporate culture fun and exciting and sometimes that’s lacking in corporate America.
Gabriella

Raised in a Quaker family, it was natural for me to befriend the underdog, tolerate the &^%’s, and stay calm at all times. I eventually learned that humoring difficult people was not worth it, though. It only raised their ire toward me (like killing someone with kindness) as our psychosocial gap widened, and I’d end up furious at myself for “giving them a chance”. Most of us have pretty good gut feelings about people, though I do think we should be careful about judging others. Early tipoffs in regard to someone’s toxicity can help us to set boundaries in our mind for the future, before dealing again with energy-suckers and negative souls.
http://www.successcomgroup.com Michael Cherenson

Well done!
Etienne

The worst part about being a “nice guy” is that just when you feel you’ve created the perfect balance in yourself, there’s a situation that tests you and may even necessitate betraying yourself and your progress in that area. For me it was trying too hard with my fiancee’s father. I gave it my all and he kicked me in the balls for no better reason than control and jealousy on his part. I hoped my girl could find a way through it but we broke up. It still hurts like hell, but I can’t live in a family like that because “that’s who he is”.
Samantha

LOVE THIS POST!!! Well said!
xo
C.S. Davis

Never confuse “strength” for “overdone and unconvincing boastfulness about how tough I really am under my nice-guy exterior.”

I don’t follow Shankman’s blog, and followed a link from elsewhere, so be warned I’m not part of the kiss-ass choir he’s preaching to here.

Shankman, like most “LOOK what an extreme entrepreneurial social media adventure lifestyle personal branding guru I am!” types, has always rubbed me the wrong way, but this is the first time he’s actually sounded like a freshly-humiliated adolescent penning a MySpace manifesto. He even cites an incident of junior high bullying as the foundation of this “underestimated, hidden tough-guy” self-image.

Peter – it might be time to get over it and stop trying so hard to convince people of your superiority to teenage jocks and prom queens.
Pingback: Social Media Storytelling Marketing PR Curated Stories Mar. 1, 2010
http://shankman.com Peter Shankman

C.S:

Your comment wound up, without intervention, in my SPAM folder. Which I find funny.

I approved it to ask you a question: I don’t suppose you have any desire to start a real dialogue, do you? Or do you just prefer the drive-by comment? By your own admission, you don’t follow me – Yet you profess to know all about me.

Something doesn’t add up, C.S.

Care to elaborate?

All the best,

-Peter Shankman
http://www.EmploymentLawWA.com Jill Pugh

I think it is a great post! I saw the earlier Tweet with the title, but no link – glad someone just did a RT with the link. Believe it or not, as an attorney – a litigator no less – I try to run my practice this way. I see no reason to start out hostile with fangs out….and I am able to successfully resolve a lot of disputes with this demeanor. However, if I am pushed, I *will* push back to protect my clients.

I can see where C.S. is coming from, if s/he knew nothing about Peter and had never read anything by him, did not follow Peter on Twitter. However, s/he comes off sounding petulant and adolescent with this post – not sure what value there is in this post.
http://www.kenmoorhead.com Ken Moorhead

One of the things I love most about the social web and “new school” of bloggers is how often I find someone speaking words that could have easily come from my mouth.

Great read, definitely one I’m going to bookmark so I can come back to for inspiration in the future.
http://learntoduck.com Micah Baldwin

Over the weekend I was having dinner with a couple of friends. One asked about hiring and firing employees.

I said “its easy to see the ones that suck. Just fire those.”

He replied “Isnt that mean?”

“Its ok. Im a dick.”

The third person at the table said “But Micah, you are so open and honest that you arent really being a dick, you are just being you.”

For me, thats the difference. You dont have to BE nice. or BE a dick. You just have to BE you. Its everyone else’s bag to qualify how they view your behavior.

Now, where the hell is my taser? Shankman is getting uppity again.
http://www.techguerilla.com Matt Ridings @techguerilla

One of the more meaningful posts to cross my desk today Peter.
http://www.jimkukral.com Jim Kukral

I’m glad I’m not the person this post was meant for. If you are that person, watch out!
http://www.mixedgreensvillage.blogspot.com Elizabeth

Peter,
So wild that you wrote about this…I have been struggling with the phrase, “nice guys finish last” this past week. Somehow, I couldn’t accept that phrase as I am a nice person. Interesting that you were pondering this very same thing. There is another phrase…”Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”…along the same lines.
Jeff Killip

Peter,

Great posting. I agree that being a nice guy has it’s own karma rewards – and it just feels better.

The trick is not to be stupid, a doormat, or a whimp. Or to be fake nice.

I’m sorry I missed the right hook to the left eye episode. Catharsis in motion.

Nice on.
http://www.edgenation.com Paul..

I assume your post was prompted by this: http://techdirt.com/articles/2.....328.shtml?
http://UnderConstruction Damian Becker

Peter,

Excellent! It’s the only way to live — “nice guys finish last.”

When you apply your thoughts in regard to the greatest “nice guy” in history, it was he who said, “the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.”
http://www.mbmmarketing.com Maggi Beckstoffer

Damn skippy Peter! Thanks for the being the nice guy who helped me find a PR rep for an artist friend, even though you don’t know either of us. And thanks for reminding us other nice guys that we’re not in this alone. One day we’ll rule the world and it’ll be a wicked fun, and nice, place to live!
http://www.mbmmarketing.com Maggi Beckstoffer

PS – I’m really curious what prompted you to write about this subject.
http://danhowepr.blogspot.com/ Dan

Wow, not one negative or slightly critical comment yet!

@ Maggi Beckstoffer:
I think this is what prompted the post http://bit.ly/aC1OrM The second comment is worth a read.
Dale Evans

This is a good post, but I can’t help but wonder if it was inspired by this article.

http://www.techdirt.com/articl.....8328.shtml

Competition breeds innovation.
http://www.jamireyesco.com Jami

Peter,
What a great post. Thanks for writing this! I’m so glad I stopped by to read you tonight.

I just went through this yesterday and shared 3 examples with some friends. I needed to check w/ them to see if my anger was justified. I’m a “nice guy” too but I was also the immigrant kid who didn’t speak English in elementary school; and then later, the kid who pronounced things funny. I know how to defend myself really well.

Like you, I will continue to be the “nice guy” until I feel I’m being taken advantage of and this week 3 people found out what it’s like to see the Crazy Honduran in me. ;-) I’m also done with giving people a free peek into my address book – this is why clients pay me. This week I learned to say NO.

Thanks again!
http://www.InnovativeSettlements.com Carole

Excellent, exceptional writing, Peter.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I fully relate to each and every thing you mention and it’s so good to hear some reinforcement that I’m not “too nice”
as a therapist friend of a friend recently told me….as if people would not take advantage if I were “not so nice and giving all the time.” I actually found myself thinking about HOW to be “not so nice”. It didn’t take long – like a few seconds – to realize that was NOT the right way to approach the users and abusers.

You sir, are a gift! Keep on spreading the word!
http://www.thebasemententrepreneur.com Chris @ The Basement Entrepreneur

I think a better title for this post would have been, “Never confuse ‘being a nice guy’ for being a nice person.” Don’t confuse the two. Nice guys in business try to act nice because it’s good for their career and image, but then “the fangs can cut through you like a hot knife through butter,” as we hear Peter say above.

I can’t imagine a NICE PERSON would fire off a cease and desist letter to a new competitor who merely named you as an inspiration. And would then try to completely run them out of business by asking for ownership of their domain name? http://techdirt.com/articles/2.....8328.shtml Wow!

I’m a huge fan of HARO, but this cease and desist letter is very distasteful to me. I’ve never met Peter Shankman, but I cannot help the fact that this changes the way I feel about him. That would seemingly be a personal branding failure on his part. However, I suspect it won’t slow him down a bit. His extremely hard work on HARO et al has now placed him in a position of real power and influence. I guess that’s when threatening C&D letters get pulled out of the quiver.
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http://www.hotheadblog.com charles martin

the part of “art of war” was enough for a few months of thinking… thanks Peter.
http://www.mcallrow.com Meg McAlister

Peter — There’s a great book you may have read called “The Power of Nice: How to Conquer the Business World with Kindness” by Linda Kaplan Thayer and Robin Koval (the powers behind the Kaplan Thaler Group). It echoes/embodies a lot of your sentiments, which I wholeheartedly share. My partner Darcie Rowan and I are always swearing that we’re going to blog about this book and this business/life model…and some day we will….well as soon as we can dig out from under the avalanche of business we handle long enough to start the blog.

Too many people in the overall business world, and in the microcosm of individual workplaces, believe the only way to “swim with the sharks” is to become one. I once worked in an environment where the “me before you” and “mean girl” (and guy) mentalities ruled, and when I left to start my own company I was amazed (naive) to see what competitors would say and do to each other to get an account, and then further to that, how companies specifically in the p.r. biz interact with clients. My partner and I believe in karma, we don’t trash our colleagues/competitors, and we treat every perspective client with respect and consideration. Many who come to us for representation are not “ready”, but rather than simply dismiss them or cut them loose to be taken advantage of, we take the time to talk, to guide, and to share information. Many of those people we help remember; some become clients eventually, and many of who don’t refer business to us anyway. Former co-workers and colleagues remain part of our invaluable network, and many have gone on to become clients as well. 10-years later, we’re still here and we didn’t have to stab anyone in the back, treat anyone like s**t, or leave anyone feeling “raped and pillaged” by the p.r. process to get here. Proving that being fair and nice, and being savvy and successful are NOT mutually exclusive terms.
http://www.shayaloney.com Shaya

Great post.
http://www.charlesjustiz.com Dr J

Excellent points all – well presented. I would only point out an added bit of wisdom given to us by Sun Tzu:

“Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.”

True excellence occurs when you achieve your goals without conflict.
http://raygen.info Ron

This is a great post! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I sometimes have wondered if I could have gotten farther if I was more cutthroat. However, I personally can’t justify doing someone else wrong if they haven’t done wrong to me first.

Even though I am a nice guy, I will fight for whats mine harder then most if someone thinks they can push me. I think the best thing I ever did in my life was just being satisfied with what I do have and to be as ethical as possible to improve my lot. I then just let the chips fall where they may.
http://www.rfbd.org Andy O’Hearn

Peter,

WOW, I feel like I have heard from a kindred spirit at last! Thanks so much for writing about this. Sorry that I won’t be able to make your upcoming BMA event in West Orange, NJ, but I would love to be added to the mailing list for future info/events.

RE: ..And 50,000,000 People Heard You Sucked

Tuesday, March 9th 6-9 PM

Wilshire Grand

350 Pleasant Valley Way, West Orange, NJ
Pingback: Doug Haslam » Blog Archive » Social Media Top 5: Redefining Nice Guys, Facebook URL Fad, and the Social Media Playlist
http://will.crosscutcommunications.com Will Reichard

Been meaning to say how wonderful this post was. Have been thinking about it since you published it. One thing I haven’t seen touched on in these comments is that this is itself a “nice” message–i.e., fair warning. Many people wouldn’t be that nice, especially when you consider that the people who most need to hear it probably won’t listen. It takes a lot of strength to write a post like this one. It’s classy, Peter. Keep up the great work.
Elie

You had to swim with sharks and share meals with lions to get where you are right now. Don’t portray yourself as the feared asssh CEO. You are kind, smart, friendly human being who likes to help others. Don’t change and don’t justify it. It shows weakness.
http://www.cushmanamberg.com Mary P

LOL. Love it, Peter. I thoroughly enjoyed this and am sending it to some friends right now. Thanks.
http://currentsinmusic.com Kat Fulton

Great one. As a “nice gal,” it’s similar. Some people think that they can walk all over me, only to get a nice surprise very soon. I think it all comes down to taking the best care of myself so that I have even MORE to give out and share with the world.

Reminds me of that book “The Way of the Superior Man.” The nice guy is no pansy!
http://www.screwcrew.com Andy Pels

So funny. My “nice guy” clarification moment came in high school when I lifted John Marzo by his skinny neck and panted (oh, I was over the edge) “Leave – me – alone”. Never did figure out why he and his buddy (who just stood staring) picked on me all of the time. I find being a nice guy makes those moments when you must display the limits so much sweeter.
http://www.johnlongbottom.co.uk John

I was considering writing an article like this just this morning. I’m a nice guy, but every so often somebody will come along and mistake that niceness for weakness. The poor, poor b*stards.

Awesome article, good job, and it’s really reassuring to know that I’m not the only one who encounters this issue.
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http://www.SchoolofCoachingMastery.com Julia Stewart

I’m like you, nice almost all of the time, until somebody crosses me in a serious way, which they do, because hey, I’m nice. I’m also that lion. Most of the time, nice gets me everything I need, so I don’t bite often, but when I do, it’s fast and hard and then it’s ‘good-bye’.

Oh and I too was teased in school. Only they called me ‘toothpick’. Nobody calls me names anymore, though!
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http://jordanscroft.blogspot.com K. A. Jordan

Many years ago, my brother-in-law worked at a Rehab – he was 5’5″ and his clients came from every walk of life.

His favorite saying was ‘Do not confuse kindness with weakness.’

He was a kind person. But he wasn’t afraid to take on the biggest or meanest and give them a ‘piece of his mind’ when required.

You just brought back a GREAT memory of him backing a big guy into a corner with a finger to big guy’s chest. It looked like a little dog taking on a bull.

Thanks for posting this.
http://websiteurl Carol Cook

Dear Peter,

I really, really needed to read this tonight. I’ve been feeling so hopelessly depressed. I am nice. I like being nice and most people appreciate my innate enthusiasm and empathy… but I seem to attract bullies as well… and I hate bullies and I can not, will not, back down. Its so great when you have allies, when you don’t have to fight alone. But I swear, as soon as one fight ends, another one rises up like a blow up Bozo. It just makes me feel so weary sometimes. But its good to read a post which makes it very clear that nice doesn’t equal kick me. I appreciate that, so much. Thanks Peter.
http://websiteurl KD

“Be the change you want to see in the world”

^^^^Why I am a nice guy.

Most people walk the earth like wounded animals…scared of other animals, on their toes paranoid and cynical… ready to lash out and hurt others.

And they rationalize it with “Well someone hurt me before so im just returning the favor. Im just following the rules of nature”

And they’ve created another wounded animal who will do the same, who will continue the cycle..

We cannot progress as people if we’re all scared and distrustful of one another.

So in being a nice guy, in showing that kindness, love, and care are integral foundations of my life, I hope to do my part, albeit small, in changing the world.

Will there be times where ill be hurt? Times where ill have to fight? Times where none of it will seem worth it? Sure. Happening right now matter of fact. But there’s also times where it honestly does pay off.

Ultimately “playing by the rules of nature” solves nothing and causes more hurt and pain in the long run. And plus, “being a nice guy” has shaped my worldview, my ability to see the entire picture….By discarding it, I would betray myself.

So..even when the bullcrap of the world gets to me, I can’t compromise who I am. Ever. So until the day I no longer take breath, I’m a nice guy.
impact glory

Very well written , i can relate 100% i get offended not by what people do when they are stupid enough to assume i am weak. But rather i am offended that society us so stupid. And i have to live wuth these people. I am the last person anyone would want to mess with and people know yhat often when it is too late. I am also a step ahead of other people too. That it doesnt offend me whatsoever when people think im a mug for helping them out. Because i help because im secure enough to be compasionate. But at the same time i am judging the other persons character by the way they react to my kindness… do they say thank you and apreciate what i have down and become positive andnuplifter nice people exist. Or do they start acting or thinking that i am weak and a walk over…. i noticed throughtout life the people that treat nice people bad are the weakest of all people. They arejnsecure and weak to the core… so in the topic of CEO’s ect. I find 99% if the time they are nice people. From my experience the most adequet 0eople are often the nicest.. while a small percentage who maybe gifted like me.. would probably be strict to make sure the company suceeds. I believe majority of ceos get caught in the wirlwind of actually truely becoming arseholes.. because they believe they have too…. i would be able to seperate work from personal life. Id do what i had to do to control the herd (sheep) whilst maintaining my true self .. a secure nice human being… weak nasty ppl are always at the bottom…. for example simon cowell… i do not knowbhim personally. But i can assure you in his personal life he is the nicest of nice guys… he loves fluffy animals like me. Too….. weak ppl cannot bring themselves to love cute flufffy animals either.. that is another sign of insecure weakness…
http://www.facebook.com/commoveo Howard Buskirk

Oh my, I feel so much better now having not only read the above, but all go the post below! I knew I wasn’t alone, but living in red neck country of W. Va. It can be quite hard to find Men especially to have friends, and that includes religious organizations whether independent or organized. I just found you on fb and friend requested you. All of you are quite the coolest! Again I can’t tell you how good I feel now! I remembered a time when I would go to a bar although I didn’t even drink just to socialize, and remember guys trying to show there manhood in trying to start a fight. I would think to my self if they really wanted to fight, go to the city park and pic on a jogger lol. I love wild flowers, and fluffy dog, but overall I enjoy all of them. I know there are people near me most likely that are just as me and all of us. I will eventually find them, but just have moved to this farming area, but it will happen! I love being me, and I love people, and truly love to help those who wish to help themselves. Enough said, and again appreciate what you have done here! Later, Howard

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